Zion Williams update

[ArizonaLonghorn]

1 hour ago, Glass Joe said:

Just for comparison, the school 100 miles to the east landed five 5-star DL and another 3 national top 100 DL over the same 3-year period.

Ouch.  Touché.

[goattalk100]

20 minutes ago, Glass Joe said:

Bo Davis was the DL coach at Texas for six seasons (2011-2013, and again from 2021-2023).  How many players did he recruit that “developed” into NFL players in those six seasons?  

Answer:  Just one.  H.Ridgeway.

I guess it takes more than six seasons to make an impact?

If we’re talking about over 10 years ago then we might as well talk about Les Miles & Nick Saban. What are we doing here? Also, if we’re talking development, then it doesn’t matter if you recruited them personally or not. That’s completely irrelevant to developing players. If a player is at a certain level before a position coach gets there & then said player gets better after the position coach is there, is that just a random roll of the dice? Or can that be attributed to the coach who came in & made the player better?

[goattalk100]

6 minutes ago, ArizonaLonghorn said:

Ouch.  Touché.

I mean what happened with those guys they recruited over there? I guess chucking huge amounts of money for talented kids who are looking to get paid equates to great recruiting these days.

[goattalk100]

Also, this could completely be just me coping but I don’t think Zion is really a must get for me. I think he’s plenty big & talented but I think the out of state guys were recruiting are just better prospects.

[Glass Joe]

8 minutes ago, goattalk100 said:

If we’re talking about over 10 years ago then we might as well talk about Les Miles & Nick Saban. What are we doing here? Also, if we’re talking development, then it doesn’t matter if you recruited them personally or not. That’s completely irrelevant to developing players. If a player is at a certain level before a position coach gets there & then said player gets better after the position coach is there, is that just a random roll of the dice? Or can that be attributed to the coach who came in & made the player better?

 What exactly is DL “development” to you?  Break it down by percentage:

1.  Natural athletic talent / DNA of player 

2. Player’s mentality / drive to maximize their physical talent

3.  Strength & Conditioning program

4.  DL position coaching 

How much of a DL player’s development to becoming an NFL player is attributable to the DL position coaching (#4)?

I think most NFL GMs and scouts will tell you that the combination of #1 and #2 are by far the most important attributes they look for in an NFL DL prospect.  In fact, they will tell you that #4 is fairly meaningless because they will expect their own DL coach to teach the techniques that comprise their defensive schemes once they get to the NFL.

Further, how differentiated is the DL position coaching among P5 DL coaches?  Does Bo Davis teach different hand placement, pad level, first step, leverage, and rush technique any differently than 90% of the other P5 DL coaches?   Probably not much.

Teaching the specifics of the DL techniques required of the defensive scheme is important, but not very differentiated among P5 DL coaches / techniques.  In other words, being taught to play the 3-technique DT in a base 4-3 Under scheme is going to be largely the same across all teams that play that scheme.  There’s not much differentiation in the position teaching at all.  If any.

So, it should be clear that measuring a P5 DL coach is as much about their ability to identity elite athletic talent traits (#1) combined with the mental eval to identify those recruits who will be personal maximizers (#2).  In addition, the S&C program (#3) that focuses on the position-specific physical development of the player is the next most important determinant of player performance on-field.  

If you want to evaluate a DL coach, apply the proper metrics of success and not the armchair evaluation of “gee, we had two DL drafted highly so our DL coach must be great”.

[AceHorn23]

1 hour ago, Thanos72 said:

He’s never been a recruiter. Stop it. The transition year is always the hardest one because relationships were already built. He also takes 3-4 years for a player to surface. You can be overrated while being a good coach. 

Oh, so he wasn't recruiting Zion or Brown. Got it.  

[goattalk100]

49 minutes ago, Glass Joe said:

 What exactly is DL “development” to you?  Break it down by percentage:

1.  Natural athletic talent / DNA of player 

2. Player’s mentality / drive to maximize their physical talent

3.  Strength & Conditioning program

4.  DL position coaching 

How much of a DL player’s development to becoming an NFL player is attributable to the DL position coaching (#4)?

I think most NFL GMs and scouts will tell you that the combination of #1 and #2 are by far the most important attributes they look for in an NFL DL prospect.  In fact, they will tell you that #4 is fairly meaningless because they will expect their own DL coach to teach the techniques that comprise their defensive schemes once they get to the NFL.

Further, how differentiated is the DL position coaching among P5 DL coaches?  Does Bo Davis teach different hand placement, pad level, first step, leverage, and rush technique any differently than 90% of the other P5 DL coaches?   Probably not much.

Teaching the specifics of the DL techniques required of the defensive scheme is important, but not very differentiated among P5 DL coaches / techniques.  In other words, being taught to play the 3-technique DT in a base 4-3 Under scheme is going to be largely the same across all teams that play that scheme.  There’s not much differentiation in the position teaching at all.  If any.

So, it should be clear that measuring a P5 DL coach is as much about their ability to identity elite athletic talent traits (#1) combined with the mental eval to identify those recruits who will be personal maximizers (#2).  In addition, the S&C program (#3) that focuses on the position-specific physical development of the player is the next most important determinant of player performance on-field.  

If you want to evaluate a DL coach, apply the proper metrics of success and not the armchair evaluation of “gee, we had two DL drafted highly so our DL coach must be great”.

I get your breakdown of the evaluation piece in terms of position coaches, but I’ll still push back on the coaching aspect of it because then it wouldn’t matter where any of the top recruits in the country go. If what you’re stating is correct, then every 5 star d lineman should be a 1-2 round pick, 4 stars should be drafted or at least make a camp team & then throw in the occasional 3 star. Now of course most of the nfl d lineman are former 5 & 4 stars but what is the hit rate out of those players?

If we take those things into consideration with the traits, mental Eval & s&c, then I think there is still a good 20% at least (not having done the actual math) in terms of coaching. There are certainly exceptions & players that are high in categories 1 & 2 are oftentimes drafted solely because of those traits I get it. But coaching matters to an extent. I’m not going to say Bo was the sole reason those guys made the league. He did play a part though & that’s coming from those players mouths. They know what it’s like working under Bo vs not & they seem to think he had an impact on their careers.

[Thanos72]

54 minutes ago, AceHorn23 said:

Oh, so he wasn't recruiting Zion or Brown. Got it.  

It’s about time you did. Meeting with a player doesn’t make you a recruiter. He’s riding Sweat/Murphy and he is a good coach. Never been a top recruiter. It’s not an opinion or debatable. Absolutely not his strength. 

[AceHorn23]

9 hours ago, Thanos72 said:

It’s about time you did. Meeting with a player doesn’t make you a recruiter. He’s riding Sweat/Murphy and he is a good coach. Never been a top recruiter. It’s not an opinion or debatable. Absolutely not his strength. 

Sarcasm bro.

[Adam Lane]

Goodness guys...let it go.  It is what it is.  We will play the long game.  If the chips fall our way with the other targets this could be a nonissue altogether.

[Thanos72]

Quit being sensitive. It’s a chat board. We are exchanging opinions. No one got personal or inappropriate. 

[Adam Lane]

2 hours ago, Thanos72 said:

Quit being sensitive. It’s a chat board. We are exchanging opinions. No one got personal or inappropriate. 

🤣🤣🤣

Terribly sorry.  My mistake.

To be clear, I don't give a hoot.  It is all nonsense.  It is like arguing which paint is drying faster.

 

Get over it.  Bo is gone.  The past is gone.  We have to play the hand we're dealt.  

In the mean time, back to the reality that matters, it is about to start raining talent.....Possibly one of the most talented recruiting classes in the past 30 years (including DLs).

And......a viable BB coach to boot

Hook'em

[Thanos72]

6 hours ago, Adam Lane said:

🤣🤣🤣

Terribly sorry.  My mistake.

To be clear, I don't give a hoot.  It is all nonsense.  It is like arguing which paint is drying faster.

 

Get over it.  Bo is gone.  The past is gone.  We have to play the hand we're dealt.  

In the mean time, back to the reality that matters, it is about to start raining talent.....Possibly one of the most talented recruiting classes in the past 30 years (including DLs).

And......a viable BB coach to boot

Hook'em

Lot of weighing in for not giving a hoot. 😂

It’s summer and it’s football boring. Once the new class settles, we’ll have new pants for new topics…

[GQ03]

On 6/21/2024 at 5:01 PM, Avishai Schiff said:

Do I have this right?  Bo's recruiting at UT was meh.  Now him leaving for LSU may have cost us Dom McKinley and Robinson last year (Robinson was shaky regardless) and potentially Zion and Brown this year. 

That's one hell of a series of gut punches.

Don't forget Jamaree Caldwell (UH transfer DT that went to Oregon) or Alex Foster who some dubbed a T'Vondre Sweat starter kit.

[TexasLonghorns]

Several crystal Balls for Wynn to FSU this morning. What’s the DT outlook or ones we have a legit shot with?