harveycmd Posted Tuesday at 10:40 AM Posted Tuesday at 10:40 AM 19 hours ago, pinkman_90 said: So those are your requirements for a great player? 3+ nba titles, multiple first teams, and multiple defensive teams? What does the word great mean? If you throw out terms like "great player" and "generational leader," then high criteria must be met. Three all NBA first teams and a couple of any level all defensive teams aren't exactly rarified air. I mean, there are scores of players who have done that in NBA history. Quote
pinkman_90 Posted Tuesday at 02:19 PM Posted Tuesday at 02:19 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, harveycmd said: What does the word great mean? If you throw out terms like "great player" and "generational leader," then high criteria must be met. Three all NBA first teams and a couple of any level all defensive teams aren't exactly rarified air. I mean, there are scores of players who have done that in NBA history. Now add to that leading your team to 3+ nba titles? What’s that list of players look like? Also with your criteria guess we have to leave off KD, Steph, Nash, Barkley, Dirk, etc. from the “great” players list. Edited Tuesday at 02:19 PM by pinkman_90 Quote
harveycmd Posted Tuesday at 02:34 PM Posted Tuesday at 02:34 PM (edited) The list is limited, but great is by definition exclusive: Bill Russell Kareem Jordan Magic Kobe Shaq Pippen Duncan LeBron Havlicek Edited Tuesday at 02:36 PM by harveycmd Quote
harveycmd Posted Tuesday at 02:43 PM Posted Tuesday at 02:43 PM There's a difference between great and all-time great. Nash, Nowitzki aren't either one. Without the 2001 rule changes, Steph isn't either. I'm indifferent on Barkley. Quote
Dread-headed Texan Posted Tuesday at 04:11 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:11 PM 1 hour ago, harveycmd said: There's a difference between great and all-time great. Nash, Nowitzki aren't either one. Without the 2001 rule changes, Steph isn't either. I'm indifferent on Barkley. Great and generational gets thrown out far too much. Caitlin Clark was termed great and generational before she ever touched a WNBA floor and the more she plays the more we see the holes in her game. She doesn't have a left hand, a dribble package, can't get downhill without a screen... But she's polarizing and popular, however sports is about hardware and she has nothing. Give me Chelsea Gray and Olivia Miles as top point guards in the league. 1 Quote
harveycmd Posted Tuesday at 04:18 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:18 PM 2 minutes ago, Dread-headed Texan said: Great and generational gets thrown out far too much. Caitlin Clark was termed great and generational before she ever touched a WNBA floor and the more she plays the more we see the holes in her game. She doesn't have a left hand, a dribble package, can't get downhill without a screen... But she's polarizing and popular, however sports is about hardware and she has nothing. Give me Chelsea Gray and Olivia Miles as top point guards in the league. That's exactly the problem; it's media driven more often than not these days. First Knicks title in 53 years and New York media goes nuts, to say nothing of their fans. Brunson is a good player and a good leader, but that doesn't make him great in either category. I've never understood the Clark the stuff. I know I can't stand seeing her on every other commercial that pops up. 1 Quote
harveycmd Posted Tuesday at 05:38 PM Posted Tuesday at 05:38 PM (edited) I've posted this before, but it's worth posting again for those that don't really know much about basketball history. Most combined all NBA First Team and all NBA Defense First team combined. Player All NBA First team All NBA First Team Defense Total Kobe 11 9 20 Jordan 10 9 19 LeBron 13 5 18 Duncan 10 8 18 Kareem 10 5 15 Jerry West 10 4 14 Garnett 4 9 13 Malone 11 1 12 Pippen 3 8 11 Payton 2 9 11 Shaq 8 3 11 Edited Tuesday at 05:42 PM by harveycmd Quote
harveycmd Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago Modern analytics sucks. AI says 2001 pre-prime Kobe at 22 would beat 2017 28 year old Curry by double digits in a 1v1 game to 21. Curry couldn't score on Kobe. Curry couldn't stop Kobe from scoring. Quote
harveycmd Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago I'll admit that I don't know what 1v1 to 21 means. When I played 1v1 for money in South Oak Cliff in the 1990s, we always played make-it-take it to 11 by 1 gotta win by two. Quote
khardman Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago Does anybody really care about the NBA. It is not even close to the game of basketball that I grew up playing. By the way can you define what a foul is and how many steps it takes to be called traveling or walking? Sheesh!!! Hook Em Quote
harveycmd Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 3 minutes ago, khardman said: Does anybody really care about the NBA. It is not even close to the game of basketball that I grew up playing. By the way can you define what a foul is and how many steps it takes to be called traveling or walking? Sheesh!!! Hook Em They changed the rules to allow for the Euro Step. They changed the rules to make pansies happy. From 1980-2010 the best athletes in the world played in the NBA. Now pencil dicks rule basketball. Quote
harveycmd Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago Now we got fat white boys like Luka, slow goobers like Jokic, and unathletic chumps like Curry hyped as the "best" players. That's why nobody cares what happens now. They need to go back to the pre-2001 rules and run a real man's league. Quote
harveycmd Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago AI says 2001 22 year old Kobe would kill any year Luka 1v1. Quote
harveycmd Posted 1 hour ago Posted 1 hour ago 1 hour ago, harveycmd said: I'll admit that I don't know what 1v1 to 21 means. When I played 1v1 for money in South Oak Cliff in the 1990s, we always played make-it-take it to 11 by 1 gotta win by two. Someone asked me what that means. It means 1 point for each score regardless where you shoot from on the court. If you scored, you got the the ball back. You had the check the ball with the defender at the top of the key after scoring. There weren't no foul call BS. You could try to call one, but the guys watching wouldn't back you up if you didn't really get fouled. That said, I never ran into a guy that wouldn't admit he fouled you if you called it. You didn't call it unless it was on the shot. Quote
harveycmd Posted 1 hour ago Posted 1 hour ago @Gerry Hamilton Phil Jackson explicitly stated that he gave Kobe Bryant more responsibility in managing the court game than he ever gave Michael Jordan. The 2001 Playoff Comments During the 2001 NBA playoffs, Jackson praised Bryant's evolution into a complete floor leader. He contrasted their specific roles by highlighting that Jordan was primarily tasked with making plays out of double or triple teams, whereas Bryant was burdened with orchestrating the entire offensive and defensive system. Pippen did that for the Bulls. Like Jordan, Kobe had to close games for the Lakers while calling offense and defense. Phil said he couldn't put the ball in Shaq's hands at the end of games because he was poor free throw shooter. So much for Shaq being the best player for the Lakers in 2000-2004. Quote
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