D. Moore and Parker Livingston's Impact on Arch

[Levester White]

Listen, I looove our wideout group. I just wonder about Arch's confidence and comfort level with the current wideout group. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for those 

who are gone; I'm just wondering if this is affecting Arch. 

There was a point last season when Arch knew he could turn to Livingston, Mosley, and Deandre Moore, as he is sort of had a couple of possession receivers to lean on while using Wingo for deep shots and other stuff. Looking back at last season's RRR game, there are moments when Moore and Livingston would find holes in the defense or execute the scramble drill to perfection with Arch. 

I wonder if it's possible that having to form chemistry with Bishop (who hardly plays) and Coleman is affecting Arch's confidence? He has regressed, and there is something to it. Yes, Sark MUST be better, but he's not trusting the options he's seeing.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Levester White

[CJ Vogel]

I get the sentiment, but the turnover at wide receiver is so far down the list of issues, or reason for issues, with this passing game.

I have no reason to believe the passing game would be any better with Moore or Livingstone in the offense.

[Levester White]

Just now, CJ Vogel said:

I get the sentiment, but the turnover at wide receiver is so far down the list of issues, or reason for issues, with this passing game.

I have no reason to believe the passing game would be any better with Moore or Livingstone in the offense.

Totally, CJ. I just wonder why he can't pull the trigger this year when there is an open look, or why it looks like he's not trusting what he's seeing, you know? 

[Jordan91]

The problem is Arch, not the receivers. 

[Alex Butler]

10 minutes ago, CJ Vogel said:

I get the sentiment, but the turnover at wide receiver is so far down the list of issues, or reason for issues, with this passing game.

I have no reason to believe the passing game would be any better with Moore or Livingstone in the offense.

I do wonder if Arch being out after foot surgery has impacted the passing game and their comfort and connection with all the new receivers? Also wonder if that is part of why Arch is running less and looking so indecisive at times? Cadillac Jameson what’re your thoughts?!

[CJ Vogel]

Just now, Alex Butler said:

I do wonder if Arch being out after foot surgery has impacted the passing game and their comfort and connection with all the new receivers? Also wonder if that is part of why Arch is running less and looking so indecisive at times? Cadillac Jameson what’re your thoughts?!

It could, but five games in it should not be an issue still.

At the end of the day, I think he is being told not to run and take hits which is why we've seen the throws beyond the LOS and hesitancy. The hits in the past vs. Oho State 24, Texas A&M 24, and Miss State 25 have taken their toll on him.

Additioanlly, the head coach/play caller and two other coaches on staff have a say on the quarterback. Part of me thinks there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Who does he actually listen to? Who actually gets through to him? right now it looks like all three are falling flat when it comes to getting through to him and developing him at the level he should be at.

[Levester White]

3 minutes ago, CJ Vogel said:

It could, but five games in it should not be an issue still.

At the end of the day, I think he is being told not to run and take hits which is why we've seen the throws beyond the LOS and hesitancy. The hits in the past vs. Oho State 24, Texas A&M 24, and Miss State 25 have taken their toll on him.

Additioanlly, the head coach/play caller and two other coaches on staff have a say on the quarterback. Part of me thinks there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Who does he actually listen to? Who actually gets through to him? right now it looks like all three are falling flat when it comes to getting through to him and developing him at the level he should be at.

Makes sense. 

[Levester White]

18 minutes ago, Jordan91 said:

The problem is Arch, not the receivers. 

Trust me, I know. We all know. I'm just wondering if there are any contributing factors. 

[Alex Butler]

Just now, CJ Vogel said:

It could, but five games in it should not be an issue still.

At the end of the day, I think he is being told not to run and take hits which is why we've seen the throws beyond the LOS and hesitancy. The hits in the past vs. Oho State 24, Texas A&M 24, and Miss State 25 have taken their toll on him.

Additioanlly, the head coach/play caller and two other coaches on staff have a say on the quarterback. Part of me thinks there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Who does he actually listen to? Who actually gets through to him? right now it looks like all three are falling flat when it comes to getting through to him and developing him at the level he should be at.

Maybe, but if they’re not familiar with one another and they’re still learning the offense it could still be that work in progress at game speed and against insanely smart and talented defenses. Definitely hear that about too many cooks in the kitchen. One voice, and don’t micromanage him. Also his uncles had multi interception games and were still pretty darn good

[CJ Vogel]

3 minutes ago, Alex Butler said:

Maybe, but if they’re not familiar with one another and they’re still learning the offense it could still be that work in progress at game speed and against insanely smart and talented defenses. Definitely hear that about too many cooks in the kitchen. One voice, and don’t micromanage him. Also his uncles had multi interception games and were still pretty darn good

I don't mean this as a shot, but the idea that the 4th year quarterback isn't familiar with his 3rd year WR, 2nd year WR and one of the most talented WRs in the country does not mean a single thing to me. It's a poor argument.

NCAA Passing leaders:

• 1. Oregon State QB Braden Atkinson ... first year at Oregon State
• 3. North Texas QB  Tayven Jackson... first year at UNT
• 6. Virginia Tech QB Ethan Grunkemeyer ... first year at VT
• 7. Wake Forest QB Gio Lopez ... first year at Wake
• 9. Alabama QB Keelon Russell ... first year starter

You either get it or you don't.

[Levester White]

23 minutes ago, CJ Vogel said:

I don't mean this as a shot, but the idea that the 4th year quarterback isn't familiar with his 3rd year WR, 2nd year WR and one of the most talented WRs in the country does not mean a single thing to me. It's a poor argument.

NCAA Passing leaders:

• 1. Oregon State QB Braden Atkinson ... first year at Oregon State
• 3. North Texas QB  Tayven Jackson... first year at UNT
• 6. Virginia Tech QB Ethan Grunkemeyer ... first year at VT
• 7. Wake Forest QB Gio Lopez ... first year at Wake
• 9. Alabama QB Keelon Russell ... first year starter

You either get it or you don't.

But Arch Manning is neither of those guys. While I hear your point, I'm not confident that what has been mentioned has not affected him. If it's not the receivers, did Sark completely change the scheme? Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that either. We know Sark isnt helping him, but he didn't help him much last year it seems. All I'm saying is something is off with him... Until we know for sure, we don't know anything. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Levester White

[HonkEm]

3 hours ago, Levester White said:

Listen, I looove our wideout group. I just wonder about Arch's confidence and comfort level with the current wideout group. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for those 

who are gone; I'm just wondering if this is affecting Arch. 

There was a point last season when Arch knew he could turn to Livingston, Mosley, and Deandre Moore, as he is sort of had a couple of possession receivers to lean on while using Wingo for deep shots and other stuff. Looking back at last season's RRR game, there are moments when Moore and Livingston would find holes in the defense or execute the scramble drill to perfection with Arch. 

I wonder if it's possible that having to form chemistry with Bishop (who hardly plays) and Coleman is affecting Arch's confidence? He has regressed, and there is something to it. Yes, Sark MUST be better, but he's not trusting the options he's seeing.  

I think the question you're asking is a fair one. You're not saying the receivers are the problem or making excuses for Arch. You're wondering why he's playing so hesitantly and whether there are contributing factors beyond his individual performance. That's a legitimate question. At the same time, I think the biggest thing to figure out is whether he's failing to recognize opportunities, not trusting what he's seeing, or being put in situations where the reads aren't clear. Those are different problems with potentially different solutions.

[HonkEm]

2 hours ago, Jordan91 said:

The problem is Arch, not the receivers. 

I don't disagree that Arch needs to be better, but saying he's the problem and not the receivers oversimplifies it. The question is why he's hesitating on throws and not pulling the trigger when guys are open. Is that poor decision-making, a lack of confidence, the offensive scheme, or coaching? It could be a combination of things. I'm not making excuses for Arch, but Sark is responsible for developing him and putting him in positions to succeed, too. Identifying Arch as the problem is one thing; figuring out why he's struggling and how to fix it is another.

[Levester White]

44 minutes ago, HonkEm said:

I think the question you're asking is a fair one. You're not saying the receivers are the problem or making excuses for Arch. You're wondering why he's playing so hesitantly and whether there are contributing factors beyond his individual performance. That's a legitimate question. At the same time, I think the biggest thing to figure out is whether he's failing to recognize opportunities, not trusting what he's seeing, or being put in situations where the reads aren't clear. Those are different problems with potentially different solutions.

Absolutely. You understand what I’m saying. 

[Jordan91]

41 minutes ago, HonkEm said:

I don't disagree that Arch needs to be better, but saying he's the problem and not the receivers oversimplifies it. The question is why he's hesitating on throws and not pulling the trigger when guys are open. Is that poor decision-making, a lack of confidence, the offensive scheme, or coaching? It could be a combination of things. I'm not making excuses for Arch, but Sark is responsible for developing him and putting him in positions to succeed, too. Identifying Arch as the problem is one thing; figuring out why he's struggling and how to fix it is another.

I don’t think Arch can be fixed. He’s four years in and has been developed by some of the best quarterbacks to play this game his whole life. He can’t see the field, he has an anxiety attack when he is blitzed, he doesn’t know where the line of scrimmage is, and holds the ball instead of throwing it away. That is all after being raised with NFL talent around him and four years of college football coaching. What else can be done? What are they going to say this week that hasn’t been said before? What film will they watch that they didn’t watch before? Is it going to suddenly kick in? They will look better because the defenses they face over the next few games are not that good, but he has not looked right all year. That is after a second half of last year where it looked like he had figured it out. He’s not a national championship quarterback and that is the goal this year.