If you’re Ohio State….

[DiggsTX]

Do you feel great about your offense? They won and didn’t turn it over, so they get to avoid the introspective conversations we’re having. But did they not sputter just as much as we did? Statistically it seems they did.  
 

To the victor goes the spoils. Maybe they’re  more easily able to chalk it up to Texas being the best defense they’re likely to face this season. Contrary to us, they handled business just enough to make it out clean and with the dub.

 

[CJ Vogel]

I came away thinking Sayin played well. The freedom they give him will only expand. But he was smart, he was on time and there was not a throw that I remember that was in harm's way.

Again, they definitely had the trianing wheels on, but the throw to Inniss on the slot fade was spectacular and completed against just about any other team in the country. He had moments.

[harveycmd]

The good news for OSU is that they really have only one big test left, and that's Penn State at home. They could of course lay another egg against Michigan. Their fanbase is gloating now, but those who look at the actual play rather than just the win are pointing to run defense and lack of run game on offense. They probably won't see a run defense as good as Texas until the playoffs. 

[Ironmanz35]

3 minutes ago, DiggsTX said:

Do you feel great about your offense? They won and didn’t turn it over, so they get to avoid the introspective conversations we’re having. But did they not sputter just as much as we did? Statistically it seems they did.  
 

To the victor goes the spoils. Maybe they’re  more easily able to chalk it up to Texas being the best defense they’re likely to face this season. Contrary to us, they handled business just enough to make it out clean and with the dub.

 

As a Buckeye I will give my 2 cents.  No I did not feel great about our offense, I do understand we called a very vanilla game plan for a first time starter to minimize the chances to turn the ball over.  1. Running game was less then desirable.  2. Passing game was anemic.  3. Texas is most likely the best defense we see all season.  With that said, defense is always ahead of the offense this time of year.  OSU has a couple cupcakes the next two weeks before we travel to Washington so I expect us to open it up quite a bit and give the Freshman QB some confidence that will come in handy for the late season push vs Illinois, Penn State & Michigan.  Good luck to the Long Horns, Arch will be fine poor kid was being way over hyped, I can not imagine a tougher scenario Opponent and venue wise for any QB's first start then what he had..  He will end up being a great player. 

[Dread-headed Texan]

9 minutes ago, harveycmd said:

The good news for OSU is that they really have only one big test left, and that's Penn State at home. They could of course lay another egg against Michigan. Their fanbase is gloating now, but those who look at the actual play rather than just the win are pointing to run defense and lack of run game on offense. They probably won't see a run defense as good as Texas until the playoffs. 

Not just that. Texas went into the game not knowing what they will face defensively. It's on tape now, Michigan and Penn State will have a very good idea what they'll see. OSU may have been "vanilla" on offense, but so was Texas. Penn State and Michigan will have plenty to throw at that five man front. 

[DiggsTX]

9 minutes ago, Ironmanz35 said:

As a Buckeye I will give my 2 cents.  No I did not feel great about our offense, I do understand we called a very vanilla game plan for a first time starter to minimize the chances to turn the ball over.  1. Running game was less then desirable.  2. Passing game was anemic.  3. Texas is most likely the best defense we see all season.  With that said, defense is always ahead of the offense this time of year.  OSU has a couple cupcakes the next two weeks before we travel to Washington so I expect us to open it up quite a bit and give the Freshman QB some confidence that will come in handy for the late season push vs Illinois, Penn State & Michigan.  Good luck to the Long Horns, Arch will be fine poor kid was being way over hyped, I can not imagine a tougher scenario Opponent and venue wise for any QB's first start then what he had..  He will end up being a great player. 

Cheers and thanks for the point of view.  Had a great time up there despite the result!  Good luck this season!

[harveycmd]

It will be interesting to see how Patricia handles the defense throughout the season. There was a lot of talk about "disguised coverages," but they only actually disguised coverage about 30% I think. They basically played single high inverted Tampa as their base defense. That's what Sark explained to Arch at half-time. Texas ran well in the third, and Arch was able to move it through the air in the fourth. 

In college, you generally can't tailor a defense weekly as you can in the NFL because the players aren't experienced enough. Patricia had all off season for this one game. 

[Ironmanz35]

5 minutes ago, Dread-headed Texan said:

Not just that. Texas went into the game not knowing what they will face defensively. It's on tape now, Michigan and Penn State will have a very good idea what they'll see. OSU may have been "vanilla" on offense, but so was Texas. Penn State and Michigan will have plenty to throw at that five man front. 

Patricia is an NFL guy, He will change the look week to week based on what type of offense he is facing.  Plus I think he knows a thing or two about changing tendency so as to not be predictable.

[Ironmanz35]

2 minutes ago, DiggsTX said:

Cheers and thanks for the point of view.  Had a great time up there despite the result!  Good luck this season!

Glad to hear it, hope the fans were hospitable and not arseholes.  Look forward to heading to Austin in a year.

[Neil Leininger]

24 minutes ago, harveycmd said:

The good news for OSU is that they really have only one big test left, and that's Penn State at home. They could of course lay another egg against Michigan. Their fanbase is gloating now, but those who look at the actual play rather than just the win are pointing to run defense and lack of run game on offense. They probably won't see a run defense as good as Texas until the playoffs. 

Both Penn State and Michigan will both be good tests for that OL. They got little push all game.

[harveycmd]

6 minutes ago, Ironmanz35 said:

Patricia is an NFL guy, He will change the look week to week based on what type of offense he is facing.  Plus I think he knows a thing or two about changing tendency so as to not be predictable.

The question is if the players can adjust to a wide range of game plans week to week. Downs can, but maybe not everyone. Again, historically college players can't really do that. They need a consistent base defense. 

Maybe the inverted Tampa is the base defense, but offenses will know if that's the case. For most teams it won't matter because OSU is simply better. 

Edited 5 hours ago by harveycmd

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

I think had our punter not flipped the field the would have hade more offense.  However they never generated a consistent running game against our d.  Sayin was accurate but was never in any urgent state to make something happen. On the flip side smith dropped balls he will not the rest of the year. Had we punched the 4th in 1 in, the narrative on these 2 teams could be quite different. 

[Neil Leininger]

2 minutes ago, Quinncent McManning, Jr. said:

I think had our punter not flipped the field the would have hade more offense.  However they never generated a consistent running game against our d.  Sayin was accurate but was never in any urgent state to make something happen. On the flip side smith dropped balls he will not the rest of the year. Had we punched the 4th in 1 in, the narrative on these 2 teams could be quite different. 

If Manning completes those easy throws to Moore and Wingo the narrative is also completely different. We did more to lose that game than OSU did to win it. We have correctible mistakes, OSU has a serious LOS problem.

Edited 5 hours ago by Neil Leininger

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

2 minutes ago, Neil Leininger said:

If Manning completes those easy throws to Moore and Wingo the narrative is also completely different. We did more to lose that game than OSU did to win it. We have correctible mistakes, OSU has a serious LOS problem.

Osu may certainly have problems.. though I am not sold on our OL yet either. They protected reasonably well but there were some bad mental plays such as the last 4th down. Also we were running into a light box so how good is the running game when in the red zone the run game disappears. That 4th in goal was just terrible form on a qb sneak. 

[harveycmd]

I would like to add that all the talk about Sark getting fooled or outcoached is silly. Sark knew exactly what was happening. Even at the beginning he had plays good enough to work. Arch missed. 

The only play call that bothered me was the QB sneak at the goal line. They wanted to go quick, but when Arch got to the line and saw eight defenders in the G-C-G box, Sark should have told him to call time-out. Headset communication was still on. 

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

20 minutes ago, harveycmd said:

I would like to add that all the talk about Sark getting fooled or outcoached is silly. Sark knew exactly what was happening. Even at the beginning he had plays good enough to work. Arch missed. 

The only play call that bothered me was the QB sneak at the goal line. They wanted to go quick, but when Arch got to the line and saw eight defenders in the G-C-G box, Sark should have told him to call time-out. Headset communication was still on. 

Have to agree. Patricia is not a defensive god. He played what nfl teams play. Disguised coverages and bend between the 20s and hold in the red zone. Sark knows this well. 

[Ironmanz35]

44 minutes ago, Neil Leininger said:

Both Penn State and Michigan will both be good tests for that OL. They got little push all game.

Agree the run blocking was not there.  Not sure we will see another front 4 as stout as Texas but something OSU needs to work on.

I was pleased with the pass pro they kept Sayin clean all day.  

[Ironmanz35]

45 minutes ago, Quinncent McManning, Jr. said:

I think had our punter not flipped the field the would have hade more offense.  However they never generated a consistent running game against our d.  Sayin was accurate but was never in any urgent state to make something happen. On the flip side smith dropped balls he will not the rest of the year. Had we punched the 4th in 1 in, the narrative on these 2 teams could be quite different. 

Agree Ohio State starting field position dictated a lot of the conservative play calling as well.  Texas pinned us deep in our own territory many times.  This is being discussed on eleven warriors see below for starting field positions for each team..

 

Here's the breakdown - *OSU TD drive, ** Texas TD drive

First Quarter: Ohio State (42, 8); Texas (25, 49, 25)

Second Quarter: Ohio State (20*, 2, 3); Texas (25, 47)

Third Quarter: Ohio State (25, 1); Texas (29, 50)

Fourth Quarter: Ohio State  (32*, 9, 25, 47-EOG); Texas (15; 40**; 15)

Looking into those stats a little deeper, three of Ohio State's first five drives started inside their own 10 yard line, two being inside the 5!

The second half was pretty much the same, with two of the first four drives starting inside the 10.  It's difficult to get into any kind of rhythm when your backs are against your own goal line.

[Ironmanz35]

7 minutes ago, Quinncent McManning, Jr. said:

Have to agree. Patricia is not a defensive god. He played what nfl teams play. Disguised coverages and bend between the 20s and hold in the red zone. Sark knows this well. 

Patricia is not a defensive god, but the scheme was effective and he has the players to execute it.

[DiggsTX]

32 minutes ago, harveycmd said:

I would like to add that all the talk about Sark getting fooled or outcoached is silly. Sark knew exactly what was happening. Even at the beginning he had plays good enough to work. Arch missed. 

The only play call that bothered me was the QB sneak at the goal line. They wanted to go quick, but when Arch got to the line and saw eight defenders in the G-C-G box, Sark should have told him to call time-out. Headset communication was still on. 

That play was the one that really bothered me too. We went so fast they were still pumping sound through the speakers and it seemed so unnecessary to rush there. Felt like we went way too fast on a few drives in the first half.

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

16 minutes ago, Ironmanz35 said:

Patricia is not a defensive god, but the scheme was effective and he has the players to execute it.

No doubt. It was a great gameplan and it helps to have defensive quarterbacks on the field like styles and downs. 

[CHorn427]

1 hour ago, Quinncent McManning, Jr. said:

Osu may certainly have problems.. though I am not sold on our OL yet either. They protected reasonably well but there were some bad mental plays such as the last 4th down. Also we were running into a light box so how good is the running game when in the red zone the run game disappears. That 4th in goal was just terrible form on a qb sneak. 

We had two drives the whole game in which we had snaps in the redzone. Let me recap them:

3rd quarter:

Driving in from the 28 yard line, 3rd&2. 8 yard run from Wisner sets us up in the redzone. After that highly successful run, we had 6 plays in the redzone. Only one of them was a run by a runningback- a 2 yard run by Baxter from the 3 yard line on 3rd down (that's a successful RZ run). Instead of dying on the hill of your RB running it in, or calling a imaginative play/bootleg, we choose to try to do QB sneak. Here, I'd say our true running game (even discounting some successful QB runs) was successful, we just didn't give our RBs a true chance to finish the job. 

4th quarter:

Driving in from the 35 yard line, 3rd&2. 5 yard run from Wisner sets us up in the high redzone. Again, after that highly successful run, we had 5 plays in the redzone with only one run from a RB (Successful 3 yds on 2nd and 6). This was followed by two incompletions (no bootlegs, either). 

We essentially abandoned RB run game in the redzone (mistake #1) and also refused to be imaginative (mistake #2). We need to give our RBs room to actually fail in the RZ before we say that they can't run in the RZ. True/crazy stat: every time we ran the ball in 3rd and short (non goal line) with RBs, we converted for 1st downs. The problems were #1- we had way too few 3rd and shorts, and #2- we had way too many instances of poor passing on 3rd and short. 

[CHorn427]

59 minutes ago, Ironmanz35 said:

Patricia is not a defensive god, but the scheme was effective and he has the players to execute it.

How do you think he will play Penn State? Because I don't think a similar gameplan will work against them. Imo, Ohio State allowing 166 rushing yards to Texas "playing honest" with a light box doesn't bode well for them vs Penn State. I think we could have gone for 200+ - we abandoned the run at times and had drives stall and get off schedule to Arch's accuracy issues. You can say Ohio State was just allowing Texas to run on light boxes, playing bend don't break but Texas was doing the same thing if not more so (giving ample respect to Ohio State's air attack) and still held Ohio State's ground game in check. The preseason expectation was that Penn State will probably have the best running game in the country, which means better than Texas'. Also have a running QB (that has a lot more experience than Arch). If their WR corps is improved from last season in the way people are predicting, Ohio State may not be able to successfully rely on loading the box and allowing Allar to attempt to beat them through the air (which is what they have done every time facing Allar-led PSU so far). Should be interesting. Y'all are a good team, but I think the apparent lack of run game and run defense compared to last year will making repeating difficult. Or maybe our run game and run D is just that good? I would definitely love for that to be the case, but I'm skeptical of that as well. 

Edited 3 hours ago by CHorn427

[Ironmanz35]

8 minutes ago, CHorn427 said:

How do you think he will play Penn State? Because I don't think a similar gameplan will work against them. Imo, Ohio State allowing 166 rushing yards to Texas "playing honest" with a light box doesn't bode well for them vs Penn State. I think we could have gone for 200+ - we abandoned the run at times and had drives stall and get off schedule to Arch's accuracy issues. You can say Ohio State was just allowing Texas to run on light boxes, playing bend don't break but Texas was doing the same thing if not more so (giving ample respect to Ohio State's air attack) and still held Ohio State's ground game in check. The preseason expectation was that Penn State will probably have the best running game in the country, which means better than Texas'. Also have a running QB (that has a lot more experience than Arch). If their WR corps is improved from last season in the way people are predicting, Ohio State may not be able to successfully rely on loading the box and allowing Allar to attempt to beat them through the air (which is what they have done every time facing Allar-led PSU so far). Should be interesting. Y'all are a good team, but I think the apparent lack of run game and run defense compared to last year will making repeating difficult. Or maybe our run game and run D is just that good? I would definitely love for that to be the case, but I'm skeptical of that as well. 

Great points.  1. First time for all four  D-line as starters, so hopefully we improve our run D before that game.  As for abandoning the run, I did not see Texas do that until they were down 14.  I think we were happy to play everything in front and not give up a big play.  Penn State will be a problem, I also see a lot of growth for us on the offensive side of the ball leading into that game.  Yes, in my opinion Texas run D is that good!!!  

[Chop]

1 hour ago, DiggsTX said:

That play was the one that really bothered me too. We went so fast they were still pumping sound through the speakers and it seemed so unnecessary to rush there. Felt like we went way too fast on a few drives in the first half.

I think they intended to go fast a few times to try and wear their DL down but after half they realized it wasn’t smart and we needed to let Arch get time too at the LOS