Men's Basketball

[tylerlindsey2111]

Clearly, at a critical point in the season. Lunardi still likes their chances to get in. I, however, do not. Stagnation, lack of ball movement, reliance on iso drive and 1v1 shot creation without action/gap creation seems to be overwhelming issues offensively. Defensively, it appears they only lock in for long stretches when they are scoring, which creates issues in its own right. How is everyone else feeling? What is the threshold for RT getting another year? Maybe we can liven the basketball interest up, there seems to be some good basketball discussion from time to time on here.

[HookemTexas]

I watched the first few games and will not be watching again unless they get into the tournament.  As you said, it's not fun to watch because it's primarily 1v1 shot creation and no semblance of an offense.

[tylerlindsey2111]

I understand the thought process of adding guys who can go get their own and the value it brings, specifically late clock situations. Texas, however, has too many possessions with either no ball/player movement that ends in a forced shot/turnover, or they run a 1-5 pick and roll with Larry/Onyema, which is less than ideal in any situation. I have yet to understand why we are not utilizing our iso and shot making strengths by putting help-side defenders on islands to make choices in downhill attacks, especially early in the clock.

[THookem]

Just start the coaching search

[JStew]

Hypothetically let’s say we sneak into the tournament as an 11 seed and lose a close game to a 6 seed. Is Rodney still our coach next season? 

[tylerlindsey2111]

@Jordan91@bierce Any thoughts to add? I see you guys are the main MBB contributors, so decided to help a bit.

[tylerlindsey2111]

Just now, JStew said:

Hypothetically let’s say we sneak into the tournament as an 11 seed and lose a close game to a 6 seed. Is Rodney still our coach next season? 

I would say no. I think that is a small view, results based approach.. similar to what has landed you in this situation. There needs to be wholesale changes, both on the program side and the donor/fan/investment side. Basketball has to matter for more than just a few weeks in Feb/March between end of football and spring practice.

[bierce]

7 minutes ago, tylerlindsey2111 said:

@Jordan91@bierce Any thoughts to add? I see you guys are the main MBB contributors, so decided to help a bit.

Oh, poke the bear trying to hibernate in his cave, will you?  I kid of course.  Bobby didn't have it right when he compared me to Michael Corleone being pulled back in.  We all know I do this for, I mean to, myself.

I think Terry will get another season if we make the tournament and get to the round of 32 or beyond.  I don't think a second weekend is a must.  On the other hand, I don't think just making the tournament guarantees his job.  Those are general guidelines, but there could be extenuating circumstance moving the needle one way or the other.  For example, the team could go on a tear, finish +.500 in the conference, make the conference semifinals, and suffer a bad injury to leave us shorthanded in the opening round.  Alternatively, we could make the tournament, win a game, lose in the second round, and wind up watching Clark ask out of his NLI while the whole team declares for the portal, saying a lot of nasty stuff on their way out. 

There will be other factors at play.  Pope and Mark's willingness to return will be a big factor.  Codie, Pryor, Vinson and Presley showing development will be another, even if it is just in practice.  Big money donors will have an impact.  The quality and timing of other coaches becoming available.  We might have a dynamic pg on the line.  Royal Ivey might show up with Khaman Maluach and the entire South Sudan U18 team in tow.  Ok, that's not happening because Maluach will go first round, and I can't find if there is a U18 team in South Sudan right now.

Round of 32 isn't the goal for our program, but I have a hard time seeing how we punt a coach who wins tournament games in three straight seasons.  We want the program to do better.  We need to see reason to not just hope for better but reasonably expect better than annual first weekend bounce outs.  Can we do that with our returning players?  If they include Pope and Mark, and if we have an incoming plus penetrator and distributor and an experienced big man, then yeah, maybe. 

We're going to see Pope and Mark declare for the draft.  Maybe they will get combine invitations.  Maybe they won't.  What will be a lot more telling is if they declare for the draft and enter the portal. 

 

[Jordan91]

47 minutes ago, tylerlindsey2111 said:

@Jordan91@bierce Any thoughts to add? I see you guys are the main MBB contributors, so decided to help a bit.

I am at where Bobby is at. Making the tournament is most likely going to save his job. I am not saying it should. I am saying that’s the reality of Texas basketball. Which goes back to what we fans want the basketball program to be. I want Texas in the final four every ten years or so. I would settle for some sweet sixteens and elite eights. I want to be exited to watch a team because I believe that team may be the one that wins it all. I don’t think Texas and those that control NIL want the same thing, or they honestly don’t know what it takes to get there. 

[tylerlindsey2111]

1 minute ago, Jordan91 said:

I am at where Bobby is at. Making the tournament is most likely going to save his job. I am not saying it should. I am saying that’s the reality of Texas basketball. Which goes back to what we fans want the basketball program to be. I want Texas in the final four every ten years or so. I would settle for some sweet sixteens and elite eights. I want to be exited to watch a team because I believe that team may be the one that wins it all. I don’t think Texas and those that control NIL want the same thing, or they honestly don’t know what it takes to get there. 

I tend to agree with the prevailing sentiment from you guys about this year's team, and what will realistically bring RT back (whether I would like that or not). My bigger concern is the overall direction/philosophy of the program. There is no identity of which we can go to games or turn the TV on and say "we know FOR SURE we will see XYZ tonight." That is a clear leadership issue. It is evident in the way they have approached portal recruiting. Am I blaming it all on them? No, investment and resources matter. However, the inability to be sharp in ATO's, the lack of advantage shot creation, and the inability to quell runs from good teams are coaching/program issues and have existed since RT took over.

[Jordan91]

5 minutes ago, bierce said:

Oh, poke the bear trying to hibernate in his cave, will you?  I kid of course.  Bobby didn't have it right when he compared me to Michael Corleone being pulled back in.  We all know I do this for, I mean to, myself.

I think Terry will get another season if we make the tournament and get to the round of 32 or beyond.  I don't think a second weekend is a must.  On the other hand, I don't think just making the tournament guarantees his job.  Those are general guidelines, but there could be extenuating circumstance moving the needle one way or the other.  For example, the team could go on a tear, finish +.500 in the conference, make the conference semifinals, and suffer a bad injury to leave us shorthanded in the opening round.  Alternatively, we could make the tournament, win a game, lose in the second round, and wind up watching Clark ask out of his NLI while the whole team declares for the portal, saying a lot of nasty stuff on their way out. 

There will be other factors at play.  Pope and Mark's willingness to return will be a big factor.  Codie, Pryor, Vinson and Presley showing development will be another, even if it is just in practice.  Big money donors will have an impact.  The quality and timing of other coaches becoming available.  We might have a dynamic pg on the line.  Royal Ivey might show up with Khaman Maluach and the entire South Sudan U18 team in tow.  Ok, that's not happening because Maluach will go first round, and I can't find if there is a U18 team in South Sudan right now.

Round of 32 isn't the goal for our program, but I have a hard time seeing how we punt a coach who wins tournament games in three straight seasons.  We want the program to do better.  We need to see reason to not just hope for better but reasonably expect better than annual first weekend bounce outs.  Can we do that with our returning players?  If they include Pope and Mark, and if we have an incoming plus penetrator and distributor and an experienced big man, then yeah, maybe. 

We're going to see Pope and Mark declare for the draft.  Maybe they will get combine invitations.  Maybe they won't.  What will be a lot more telling is if they declare for the draft and enter the portal. 

 

Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes!

When Ivey got the team to the Olympics they did not have an indoor court in Sudan. Yes nowhere.

[Jordan91]

1 minute ago, tylerlindsey2111 said:

I tend to agree with the prevailing sentiment from you guys about this year's team, and what will realistically bring RT back (whether I would like that or not). My bigger concern is the overall direction/philosophy of the program. There is no identity of which we can go to games or turn the TV on and say "we know FOR SURE we will see XYZ tonight." That is a clear leadership issue. It is evident in the way they have approached portal recruiting. Am I blaming it all on them? No, investment and resources matter. However, the inability to be sharp in ATO's, the lack of advantage shot creation, and the inability to quell runs from good teams are coaching/program issues and have existed since RT took over.

I defer a lot to the players being responsible for what happens on the court. At some point a coach, should be held responsible for executing the game plan. Typically when a coach takes over any sport I have no problem with the coach saying the players are not executing the game plan. You want your guys in there. Terry has his guys in there. Yes he wanted other players and told no, but when you take the job you are responsible. When I see the same mistakes over and over it tells me the players can’t do what the coach is asking or won’t do what the coach is asking. Neither scenario is good. 

[tylerlindsey2111]

As a very educated guess, I would say it is a combination of both this year. Lots of "gotta get mine" coupled with an inability to put them in spots to be successful. Everyone feels like they are the guy to stop a run, to bail the team out, to call their own number, etc. Everyone can't play hero. Not you two, but for the uninterested observer that is curious of the carryover effect of this to the rest of the game, when Texas struggles to score, watch how many penetrating or positive passes are made (hint: it is very few). Additionally, then track the number of contested, low efficiency shots that are taken (hint: number is very high). Lastly, once these two things occur on offense, look at the poor effort to get back defensively. Becomes the circular guillotine that kills a basketball team.

[bierce]

2 minutes ago, tylerlindsey2111 said:

As a very educated guess, I would say it is a combination of both this year. Lots of "gotta get mine" coupled with an inability to put them in spots to be successful. Everyone feels like they are the guy to stop a run, to bail the team out, to call their own number, etc. Everyone can't play hero. Not you two, but for the uninterested observer that is curious of the carryover effect of this to the rest of the game, when Texas struggles to score, watch how many penetrating or positive passes are made (hint: it is very few). Additionally, then track the number of contested, low efficiency shots that are taken (hint: number is very high). Lastly, once these two things occur on offense, look at the poor effort to get back defensively. Becomes the circular guillotine that kills a basketball team.

I saw the quit on defense over the last 8 minutes against Florida, but I don't think it has been much of a problem throughout the year.

We saw some good ball movement and passing against OU, Tennessee, and early against Florida.  We still needed Tre to hit a bunch of turnaround shots, which he is very adept at when he is otherwise not moving laterally, but three times Onyema was fed in the paint and kicked out to a shooter.  Good stuff.  Would be the sort of thing to build an offense around if Onyema was a guy you could expect to hit a 8-10 shot if the defense gives it up.  But all we can really expect from Onyema is a pass out or taking it to the rim for a basket or a foul.  I don't mind him doing the latter, but how much better he would be with a short range shot.  Alas.  Meanwhile, Shedrick has only 1 assist to 6 turnovers in conference play, and he has never been a good passer out of the post. 

We'll see tonight if we have just 1 on 5 stuff or if there is more of an effort to help each other out.  Sometimes the 1 on 5 stuff isn't quite so 1 on 5 as it might seem.  I remember Johnson at times waving Mark to take his man to the basket with the ball to score and at time waving Mark to go through the lane without the ball to get defenders moving to clear the lane for Johnson to drive.  There's some teamwork there, even if it didn't include passing for an assist. 

But I'm less worried about Missouri's defense than I am about their offense tonight, even if Missouri forces a ton of turnovers.  Missouri shoots very well from everywhere on the floor and gets to the line a ton.  When the PG takes almost as many fta as fga, that's a PG that puts a lot of pressure on a defense. 

Tough game tonight.  If we get a win, then it will be a win had to earn. 

BTW, Gates deserves huge credit for what he has done with this team.  It has three starters and a sixth man who were on last year's team that went winless in conference.  It lost the season opener in a second half collapse against Memphis, a down to the wire game against Illinois, and a blowout @ Auburn in conference opener, but it is 4-1 in conference with a win @ Florida and three easy home wins, including an 18 smack down of Arkansas.  Currently NET 23.  I think the Tigers are happy they didn't immediately pull the plug on Gates. 

[jkates]

1 hour ago, THookem said:

Just start the coaching search

I'm with you. Let's get a short list worked up and start talking to their agents. 

[Gerry Hamilton]

2 hours ago, tylerlindsey2111 said:

Clearly, at a critical point in the season. Lunardi still likes their chances to get in. I, however, do not. Stagnation, lack of ball movement, reliance on iso drive and 1v1 shot creation without action/gap creation seems to be overwhelming issues offensively. Defensively, it appears they only lock in for long stretches when they are scoring, which creates issues in its own right. How is everyone else feeling? What is the threshold for RT getting another year? Maybe we can liven the basketball interest up, there seems to be some good basketball discussion from time to time on here.

Must win game tonight IMO. 

Texas almost needs to win the next two (Mizzou and Aggies) ... got to get to 7 wins in SEC play to get in IMO. That would mean enough Q1 wins in a brutal league. 

I'm with you though ... too many people are focusing on defense. Like the loss to Florida ... too many people are talking about Texas' defense, well Florida is a tremendous offensive team. But you know what, Missouri scored 83 in Gainesville last week to win 83-82. Texas scored 60 Saturday - zero chance to win. These teams in this league are going to score on quality defense. It's a legitimate great league that is scoring at a record rate ... so it really is all about offense. Have to be able to score 75+ on the road and 80+ at home consistently. 

Texas just doesn't put enough pressure on opponents off the ball. Texas ran more consistent action last season vs. this season. Just didn't have the talent level needed. This year, Texas has the parts ... but it's evolving into 1v1 shot creation. That is easy to defend when guys aren't making contested jump shots. 

If Texas misses the tournament, I just don't see how RT is back if the losses remain the same ... too many losses that aren't competitive in year two. 

[Hank Kingsley]

I haven't watched a game all year. Use to watch every Texas MBB game I could. I'm sure there are many other fans like me, it's just untenable to stick with RT barring a miracle run here. 

 

[HookemTexas]

Just something to keep in mind, Rick Barnes made the tournament almost every year and was eventually let go because expectations are to at least have deep runs, not just make the tournament.  Shaka made the tournament and got sent packing every time.  I believe the powers want more than just to make the tournament.

[Longhorngreg]

1 minute ago, HookemTexas said:

Just something to keep in mind, Rick Barnes made the tournament almost every year and was eventually let go because expectations are to at least have deep runs, not just make the tournament.  Shaka made the tournament and got sent packing every time.  I believe the powers want more than just to make the tournament.

Barnes was fired after not making the Sweet 16 his last 7 years at Texas.  Barnes made it 4 of his first 10 including 2 E8 and a FF,  Shaka never won a Tournament game in 5 tries and only made the Tournament 3 out 5 opportunities

[Jordan91]

37 minutes ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

Must win game tonight IMO. 

Texas almost needs to win the next two (Mizzou and Aggies) ... got to get to 7 wins in SEC play to get in IMO. That would mean enough Q1 wins in a brutal league. 

I'm with you though ... too many people are focusing on defense. Like the loss to Florida ... too many people are talking about Texas' defense, well Florida is a tremendous offensive team. But you know what, Missouri scored 83 in Gainesville last week to win 83-82. Texas scored 60 Saturday - zero chance to win. These teams in this league are going to score on quality defense. It's a legitimate great league that is scoring at a record rate ... so it really is all about offense. Have to be able to score 75+ on the road and 80+ at home consistently. 

Texas just doesn't put enough pressure on opponents off the ball. Texas ran more consistent action last season vs. this season. Just didn't have the talent level needed. This year, Texas has the parts ... but it's evolving into 1v1 shot creation. That is easy to defend when guys aren't making contested jump shots. 

If Texas misses the tournament, I just don't see how RT is back if the losses remain the same ... too many losses that aren't competitive in year two. 

What you say at the end is my biggest issue. I don’t want Texas to be satisfied with just getting to the tournament or even winning a game. I can only speak for myself and that is not enough for me. As a season ticket holder I want more than that. 

[Jordan91]

6 minutes ago, HookemTexas said:

Just something to keep in mind, Rick Barnes made the tournament almost every year and was eventually let go because expectations are to at least have deep runs, not just make the tournament.  Shaka made the tournament and got sent packing every time.  I believe the powers want more than just to make the tournament.

Do they? Do they want to up the NIL to keep up with Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky or Arkansas? Their NIL budget has to give a coach at least a fighting chance to win the SEC championship. 

[harveycmd]

I don't think the NIL budget keeps them from running a actual offense.

[Jordan91]

4 minutes ago, Longhorngreg said:

Barnes was fired after not making the Sweet 16 his last 7 years at Texas.  Barnes made it 4 of his first 10 including 2 E8 and a FF,  Shaka never won a Tournament game in 5 tries and only made the Tournament 3 out 5 opportunities

Another thing to keep in mind is Barnes run came before NIL. 

[Jordan91]

1 minute ago, harveycmd said:

I don't think the NIL budget keeps them from running an actual offense.

An actual base offense? Most teams do not run the typical base offense anymore. Texas runs a very basic offense. It’s allowing more freedom to each player. They are trying to run a position less offense. Not saying that’s the offense they should be running but that’s what they run. The base offense I grew up playing (Princeton offense) is not really run by most college teams anymore. Texas iso ball starts to struggle, because they can’t finish at the rim. Kaluma is the best at finishing at the rim, but he’s the only one. Mark tries to do it, but not consistently. The floor is typically spread when running isolation plays. If it ends with a jump shot there really isn’t anyone under the rim to rebound. That’s why they want the guards coming to the rim to rebound. Unfortunately they are not doing that. Weaver does it and he isn’t playing right now. 

[harveycmd]

While it's true there isn't as much off the ball movement and motion today (and this is not a positive development or change), every other college team doesn't run isolation with maybe a screen. The better offenses pass the ball around the perimeter looking to get open threes or drive into the lane if they can get a defensive player out of position. It's quite basic and boring, but they do it. Texas doesn't pass.