Texas Basketball question about firing Rick Barnes in 2015

[Clint Baros]

I started to dive into Texas basketball history recently and saw that Rick Barnes was the winningest coach in Texas history and was even at Texas longer than Mack Brown was being at UT for 17 years. I was in 5th grade when he was fired and did not start watching Texas basketball until Shakas Smarts first year, so I am not knowledgeable about what the general consensus was in the Texas community regarding Rick Barnes at the time. I am just curious as to what was the public opinion like about the decision back then and what the reasoning was for firing him. Was it similar to the reason Texas fired Mack Brown?

Bonus question: Would y'all have prefered he was still the Texas coach or was it the right move.

[bierce]

Barnes benefited from the opening of the Cooley Pavilion, which was at the time hands down the best practice and training facility in college basketball.  His recruiting classes 2003 through 2008 were a testament to that, but other schools caught up.  At that point, his plateau, which was an extraordinarily high plateau (5 second weekends in 7 years) became his undoing because he couldn't keep it up once he didn't have the big recruiting advantage. 

I always liked Coach Barnes.  The writing was on the wall when he lost to Chaminade.  The plug was pulled a couple of years later when the Myles Turner team lost in the first round.  Seven years without a second weekend and 4 years over which he was -2 in conference play. 

Given that such a record would have given cause to give him a raise 20 years earlier, that might not have been entirely fair, but the administration clearly believed Barnes was not going to get Texas beyond a second tier team in the conference and a rare participant in the second weekend, and it believed we could do better.

Well, we haven't so far, but I'm not sure the administration was wrong at the time.  Of course, since then Smart proved to be a total bust because he decided to completely reinvent himself as a coach, and we saw how badly that went.  Beard had to bring a toxic mess of a hot chick with him because he was a pushing 50 year old teenager with a fat wallet.  And Terry gets little support. 

I don't begrudge Barnes any of the success he has had at Tennessee, but when his biggest supposed fault here was playing below seed in the tournament, has he escaped that?  This is his 10th season at Tennessee.  He's made 6 tournaments.  He's lost to a lower seeded team 5 times and never beaten a higher seed.  I think the tournament is a crap shoot, and it is the worst measure of the strength of a program, but Barnes is little, if anything, at Tennessee to change his legend.

[thatdude2]

He also had a style of play that was less entertaining. They thought Smart would bring excitement to Texas and winning in the tournament. It did not happen.

[Assistant Regional Manager]

It was time to move on. As stated above, he went 7 years without a second-weekend appearance, and some of those tournament appearances he did have during that stretch were ugly (scoring 48 points in the first-round game against Butler in 2015).

Just because a coach is successful after he leaves or the replacement isn't successful doesn't mean letting him go was the wrong choice.

[Jordan91]

Barnes was asked to get an assistant to help with offense and he refused. The team was on a downward spiral for seven years. After that last tournament loss, during which Turner most of the second half, he finally admitted Texas couldn’t shoot the ball. He said to Craig Way after years of denying it. His answer to that was Kerwin Roach and another guy, who both couldn’t shoot the ball with any consistency. Roach was suspended once his sophomore year and twice his senior year. It was time to move on. 

[harveycmd]

The Beard domestic drama is the killer. Beard quickly turned things around and had the program headed toward a consistent sweet 16 level. When it went down, I didn't think the administration made the right decision in firing Beard. Can't undo it. It's obvious they're treading water until they get tired and sink with Terry. 

[whereiend]

Barnes peak was similar to what he is doing at Tennessee but he ended at Texas with 4 extremely mediocre seasons. The Barnes era was very stale at that point and there was nobody fretting the change.

It's a bit surprising to me that he's been as good as he has at Tennessee (arguably better than he was here, even in the best years), but as Bierce mentioned his teams are still pretty reliable to melt down late in the season and lose early in the tournament.

He is a fantastic basketball coach (especially defensively) but his managerial style is too intense to last for the entire season. Players wear down and the team ends up in a funk during the most important stretch of the season.

As mediocre as RT is overall I will say he is better in this respect, and his teams seem to play better later in the season.

Edited Tuesday at 08:16 AM by whereiend

[GQ03]

The program grew to be very stale and what's not mentioned is how bad recruiting had fallen off. The state of Texas had some really loaded in-state classes especially in 2012, 2013 & 2014 as well as 2015 that he was mostly shut out from. We had players telling key recruits not to come to Texas. From that standpoint it was almost similar to Tom Herman's ending but Barnes was actually liked as a person and there wasn't the Eyes of Texas mess going on. 

[bierce]

12 hours ago, Jordan91 said:

Barnes was asked to get an assistant to help with offense and he refused. The team was on a downward spiral for seven years. After that last tournament loss, during which Turner most of the second half, he finally admitted Texas couldn’t shoot the ball. He said to Craig Way after years of denying it. His answer to that was Kerwin Roach and another guy, who both couldn’t shoot the ball with any consistency. Roach was suspended once his sophomore year and twice his senior year. It was time to move on. 

I didn't blame Barnes one bit for telling Patterson what he could do with demands about the coaching staff.  No AD has any business telling the head coach which assistants to hire.  Fire for cause?  Sure.  Veto guys with checkered pasts?  Ok.  But the coach is in charge of the staff and the team, not the AD. 

[BobInHouston]

I have long said that the turning point for Barnes was failing to sign Marcus Smart in 2012. The reason he failed was that he was unwilling to offer Smart's best friend, Phil Forte. For what it's worth, Bill Self also did not want to offer Forte, and Forte's dad had *played* at Kansas.

Travis Ford (Oklahoma State) was the coach who was willing to sign Forte, and he got Smart (for two years, as it turned out) and Forte (for five). Forte was a good to very good guard for Oklahoma State. He shot 88 percent from the FT line and a tick under 40 percent BTA for his career.

Barnes' 2013 class was not terrible, but he sure could have used Smart. He had his only under-.500 season at Texas. When Julius Randle came to visit that year, he was told by a couple of players not to come to Texas because of how Barnes was treating them. Randle went to Kentucky instead -- I suppose he might have gone there anyway -- but Barnes's run as a pro training ground for in-state players essentially was over. The last gasp was signing Myles Turner for 2015 to play with his then-veteran core, but it did not mesh. His defense-first philosophy was taken down by a lack of offense. This is pretty much what's going on today at Tennessee.

Personally, I would have kept Barnes on, but as @bierce noted above, the expectations he himself had set caused his downfall.

[cochamps]

14 hours ago, bierce said:

Barnes benefited from the opening of the Cooley Pavilion, which was at the time hands down the best practice and training facility in college basketball.  His recruiting classes 2003 through 2008 were a testament to that, but other schools caught up.  At that point, his plateau, which was an extraordinarily high plateau (5 second weekends in 7 years) became his undoing because he couldn't keep it up once he didn't have the big recruiting advantage. 

I always liked Coach Barnes.  The writing was on the wall when he lost to Chaminade.  The plug was pulled a couple of years later when the Myles Turner team lost in the first round.  Seven years without a second weekend and 4 years over which he was -2 in conference play. 

Given that such a record would have given cause to give him a raise 20 years earlier, that might not have been entirely fair, but the administration clearly believed Barnes was not going to get Texas beyond a second tier team in the conference and a rare participant in the second weekend, and it believed we could do better.

Well, we haven't so far, but I'm not sure the administration was wrong at the time.  Of course, since then Smart proved to be a total bust because he decided to completely reinvent himself as a coach, and we saw how badly that went.  Beard had to bring a toxic mess of a hot chick with him because he was a pushing 50 year old teenager with a fat wallet.  And Terry gets little support. 

 

Hot chick?  Beg to differ on that one.  😂

[Clint Baros]

14 hours ago, bierce said:

Barnes benefited from the opening of the Cooley Pavilion, which was at the time hands down the best practice and training facility in college basketball.  His recruiting classes 2003 through 2008 were a testament to that, but other schools caught up.  At that point, his plateau, which was an extraordinarily high plateau (5 second weekends in 7 years) became his undoing because he couldn't keep it up once he didn't have the big recruiting advantage. 

I always liked Coach Barnes.  The writing was on the wall when he lost to Chaminade.  The plug was pulled a couple of years later when the Myles Turner team lost in the first round.  Seven years without a second weekend and 4 years over which he was -2 in conference play. 

Given that such a record would have given cause to give him a raise 20 years earlier, that might not have been entirely fair, but the administration clearly believed Barnes was not going to get Texas beyond a second tier team in the conference and a rare participant in the second weekend, and it believed we could do better.

Well, we haven't so far, but I'm not sure the administration was wrong at the time.  Of course, since then Smart proved to be a total bust because he decided to completely reinvent himself as a coach, and we saw how badly that went.  Beard had to bring a toxic mess of a hot chick with him because he was a pushing 50 year old teenager with a fat wallet.  And Terry gets little support. 

I don't begrudge Barnes any of the success he has had at Tennessee, but when his biggest supposed fault here was playing below seed in the tournament, has he escaped that?  This is his 10th season at Tennessee.  He's made 6 tournaments.  He's lost to a lower seeded team 5 times and never beaten a higher seed.  I think the tournament is a crap shoot, and it is the worst measure of the strength of a program, but Barnes is little, if anything, at Tennessee to change his legend.

could not ask for a better rundown of it. Thanks for the explanation🤘

[bierce]

Barnes's unfortunate comment about not being obsessed with titles didn't do him any favors.  I think it was poorly phrased, but it was much more poorly received. 

[BobInHouston]

1 minute ago, bierce said:

Barnes's unfortunate comment about not being obsessed with titles didn't do him any favors.  I think it was poorly phrased, but it was much more poorly received. 

He blazed the trail on that one. I've heard many high D-I coaches echo what he said in the years since.

[Jordan91]

1 hour ago, bierce said:

I didn't blame Barnes one bit for telling Patterson what he could do with demands about the coaching staff.  No AD has any business telling the head coach which assistants to hire.  Fire for cause?  Sure.  Veto guys with checkered pasts?  Ok.  But the coach is in charge of the staff and the team, not the AD. 

I agree, but that’s what happened. And I think they knew his answer would be no. 

[Jordan91]

43 minutes ago, BobInHouston said:

I have long said that the turning point for Barnes was failing to sign Marcus Smart in 2012. The reason he failed was that he was unwilling to offer Smart's best friend, Phil Forte. For what it's worth, Bill Self also did not want to offer Forte, and Forte's dad had *played* at Kansas.

Travis Ford (Oklahoma State) was the coach who was willing to sign Forte, and he got Smart (for two years, as it turned out) and Forte (for five). Forte was a good to very good guard for Oklahoma State. He shot 88 percent from the FT line and a tick under 40 percent BTA for his career.

Barnes' 2013 class was not terrible, but he sure could have used Smart. He had his only under-.500 season at Texas. When Julius Randle came to visit that year, he was told by a couple of players not to come to Texas because of how Barnes was treating them. Randle went to Kentucky instead -- I suppose he might have gone there anyway -- but Barnes's run as a pro training ground for in-state players essentially was over. The last gasp was signing Myles Turner for 2015 to play with his then-veteran core, but it did not mesh. His defense-first philosophy was taken down by a lack of offense. This is pretty much what's going on today at Tennessee.

Personally, I would have kept Barnes on, but as @bierce noted above, the expectations he himself had set caused his downfall.

Randle fell asleep during the game. 

[bierce]

29 minutes ago, cochamps said:

Hot chick?  Beg to differ on that one.  😂

Look at her the way Beard did through the lens of being in his mid 40s and goofy looking.

[bierce]

6 minutes ago, Jordan91 said:

I agree, but that’s what happened. And I think they knew his answer would be no. 

Oh, I know.  That was an obvious move by Patterson to try to justify the firing. 

[HookedOnTF]

13 minutes ago, bierce said:

Barnes's unfortunate comment about not being obsessed with titles didn't do him any favors.  I think it was poorly phrased, but it was much more poorly received. 

"Trust the process" has such a nice ring... when it comes with rings!

[Robert Eberhardt]

Barnes is my personal favorite coach at Texas (my senior year was the 2002-03 FF year) - there were some great basketball years, and he was always so good to the students - personally handing out pizzas to students in line before games and such - the O-Zone was a fun thing to be a part of. That being said, two things can be true - 1) He was a great coach, and 2) It was best for both parties to move on. For reasons that others have stated, it was time for both to make a change.

I've continued to root for him to have success at Tennessee.

[whereiend]

4 hours ago, Robert Eberhardt said:

Barnes is my personal favorite coach at Texas (my senior year was the 2002-03 FF year) - there were some great basketball years, and he was always so good to the students - personally handing out pizzas to students in line before games and such - the O-Zone was a fun thing to be a part of. That being said, two things can be true - 1) He was a great coach, and 2) It was best for both parties to move on. For reasons that others have stated, it was time for both to make a change.

I've continued to root for him to have success at Tennessee.

Unlike Mack, Barnes seemed pretty classy about the whole thing. Perhaps he understood that the results just weren't up to par. Also unlike Mack I think Barnes is actually very good at coaching. I never agreed with the narrative that he was better at recruiting than coaching. What probably failed him more than anything was bad roster management. Too many one and dones and not enough experienced players that could play offense.

[GoHorns1]

19 hours ago, Assistant Regional Manager said:

It was time to move on. As stated above, he went 7 years without a second-weekend appearance, and some of those tournament appearances he did have during that stretch were ugly (scoring 48 points in the first-round game against Butler in 2015).

Just because a coach is successful after he leaves or the replacement isn't successful doesn't mean letting him go was the wrong choice.

Rick needed a change of scenery which energize his career.(I hope he wins a natty). Rick a good dude and help make Texas a basketball school..

 

Edited yesterday at 12:23 AM by GoHorns1

[jonbailey]

I liked Barnes. I think his downfall had alot to do with the number of NBA players that came through without seeing tournament success, post TJ Ford.

I remember how painful it was watching KD and the 2006 squad lose bad in the 2nd round.

[cochamps]

On 2/4/2025 at 12:49 PM, bierce said:

Look at her the way Beard did through the lens of being in his mid 40s and goofy looking.

Maybe the lens he looked through was clouded by alcohol... Just sayin'.

[Gerry Hamilton]

To add to all the knowledge ... Rick wasn't putting in the level of time needed in recruiting either - especially in DFW. 

There are always stories like this behind good runs for a program ... but three assistants were so key in Rick success getting players. People know Rob Lanier (TJ, James Thomas, Boddicker, Royal Ivey and Mouton - he literally recruited the FF starting 5) and Frank Haith (convincing Barnes to take PJ Tucker without the HC seeing him in person prior to the commitment is so rare) ...

But Russ Springmann was massive. He ran the summer camps and early recruiting before he became a bench assistant. He was huge in the early recruiting of guys like Daniel Gibson, Lamarcus Aldridge, etc... before handing it off to Haith/RT. Then when he became an assistant ... he was the reason it stayed together longer - he was the entire reason Kevin Durant came to Texas, same for DJ Augustin and Damion James. The three first rounders in the same class.