OTF Premium Interesting Arch Manning Trend from the Opener (Sunday AM)

[CoachBobbyFinstock]

Just now, CHorn427 said:

I don’t think Arch would have been sacked by LSU any more times than Klubnik, he’s just as mobile.

He might have thrown a lot more errant passes and been picked off more. But imo, Arch did a pretty good job avoiding sacks 

We’ll agree to disagree then. Klubnik is better at avoiding pressure at this stage and he is really fast. 

[Jordan91]

Next three games will look better because of who they are playing. It will be a while before they play somebody with a pulse. Sark said he told Arch to be Arch. I don’t know Arch personally, but I think he would have liked to run more. Sark said after the game that Arch is better when he gets hit, so running him would have helped with that. Sark seems intent on proving his offensive line is too physical for anyone to handle. It never seems to enter his head that he can’t just line up everyone and do smash mouth football against everyone. Red zone issues and penalties have carried over from last year. Again, it will look better over the next three games because of who they are playing. 

[Gerry Hamilton]

10 minutes ago, CoachBobbyFinstock said:

Let me stop you on Klubnik. That dude ran for his life from pressure.  LSU came after him constantly with blitzes from all over. Arch, OTOH, just flat missed guys on several occasions. Arch would have been sacked  by LSU so many times it wouldn’t have been funny. Clemson had no run game and their Oline isn’t anything special. Just keeping it real.

This 100%

[marathon]

23 minutes ago, TexMexHorn94 said:

There was plenty of WRs in the portal too, this is gonna be point of criticism all year of our only play maker at WR is Wingo. I thought we would be all in these two years with Arch, we definitely invested into the defense but offensively we lack explosive playmakers.

Not sure who all was a culture fit  but one player in the portal that would make defenses pay attention every play was Zachariah Branch. 

It would have been fun to watch Branch and Wingo play together. 

My main concern for this season was the lack of explosive playmakers on offense.

I think Jack Endries will be good at TE… and maybe Livingstone will get more comfortable after the nice TD catch yesterday. 

[bgreen04]

2 minutes ago, CoachBobbyFinstock said:

We’ll agree to disagree then. Klubnik is better at avoiding pressure at this stage and he is really fast. 

This, Klubnik ran a sub 23 200m his junior year. He can flat out go. Arch is not that type of runner at all. LSU brought the house with the Weeks brothers and Perkins. Arch would have had a lot of problems if we had played LSU.

[CHorn427]

4 minutes ago, CoachBobbyFinstock said:

We’ll agree to disagree then. Klubnik is better at avoiding pressure at this stage and he is really fast. 

Our OL is probably better than Clemson’s too

[Paul L]

2 hours ago, Lock n Horns said:

Is Collin Simmons ready to be an every down player?  Seemed like they ran at him and he didn’t hold the edge. Yesterday we didn’t get them into enough 3rd and longs where they could release the hounds

We gave up 14 points and 2.7 yards a carry and this is what you come up with?

[SADBoyzUnite]

Cross posting something I shared elsewhere, but here it goes. 
 

I think the following list captures the 11 uncatchable throws stat that ESPN shared.

 

Not to bury the lead either, but the rewatch was far more favorable to Arch than I had thought it was going to be (IMO; watching live felt like a nightmare).

I think mistakes in highly emotionally charged times of the game (e.g. first play of the day; last offensive drive of the game) accentuated the disdain for his performance.

Without further ado, his “mistakes” drive by drive. Please challenge me if you think anything should be added or removed.


1st drive:
-Short on pass to Moore (1st play of game)
-4th and 2: RPO and goes with the handoff; should have held and pass (Endries wide open for easy pickup)

2nd drive:
-3rd and 11: would need All22 to see if anything was missed downfield, but he took the check down and we punted 

3rd drive:
-1st play had errant throw to Endries; watching live thought he just missed, but he is hit up high by a DL just as he releases, hence the off throw 

4th drive: 
-1st and 10 after the first first down. Low pass to Moore that may have been picked by Downs if it was any higher. Tight window. No one else looked open, other than a check down.

5th drive:
-1st and 10. He sails a pass on Livingstone (slant). Think he saw it late (working through progressions), then quick hitched it and it sailed.


(HALFTIME)

6th Drive:
-1st and 10 after the first first down. Low ball to Moore for a WR screen. Probably immediately tackled, but him slipping to catch it low led to a loss of 3 on the play.

7th Drive:
-Interception (thrown short for sure, but also late, which gave the corner time to ID that ball)

8th Drive:
-Near interception was throw into too tight of coverage 
-3rd and 3 on the 9. Hits Wingo low on the crosser. 

9th Drive:
-Perfection. TD Drive.

10th Drive:
-1st play, sailed it to Wingo on a far and wide toss. Very hard throw period.
-Low and behind on Endries (2nd and 5)
-High and slightly behind Wingo on a crosser (reminiscent of miss on Wingo on 8th drive).

Edited 4 hours ago by SADBoyzUnite

[CGG]

12 minutes ago, SADBoyzUnite said:

Cross posting something I shared elsewhere, but here it goes. 
 

I think the following list captures the 11 uncatchable throws stat that ESPN shared.

 

Not to bury the lead either, but the rewatch was far more favorable to Arch than I had thought it was going to be (IMO; watching live felt like a nightmare).

I think mistakes in highly emotionally charged times of the game (e.g. first play of the day; last offensive drive of the game) accentuated the disdain for his performance.

Without further ado, his “mistakes” drive by drive. Please challenge me if you think anything should be added or removed.


1st drive:
-Short on pass to Moore (1st play of game)
-4th and 2: RPO and goes with the handoff; should have held and pass (Endries wide open for easy pickup)

2nd drive:
-3rd and 11: would need All22 to see if anything was missed downfield, but he took the check down and we punted 

3rd drive:
-1st play had errant throw to Endries; watching live thought he just missed, but he is hit up high by a DL just as he releases, hence the off throw 

4th drive: 
-1st and 10 after the first first down. Low pass to Moore that may have been picked by Downs if it was any higher. Tight window. No one else looked open, other than a check down.

5th drive:
-1st and 10. He sails a pass on Livingstone (slant). Think he saw it late (working through progressions), then quick hitched it and it sailed.


(HALFTIME)

6th Drive:
-1st and 10 after the first first down. Low ball to Moore for a WR screen. Probably immediately tackled, but him slipping to catch it low led to a loss of 3 on the play.

7th Drive:
-Interception (thrown short for sure, but also late, which gave the corner time to ID that ball)

8th Drive:
-Near interception was throw into too tight of coverage 
-3rd and 3 on the 9. Hits Wingo low on the crosser. 

9th Drive:
-Perfection. TD Drive.

10th Drive:
-1st play, sailed it to Wingo on a far and wide toss. Very hard throw period.
-Low and behind on Endries (2nd and 5)
-High and slightly behind Wingo on a crosser (reminiscent of miss on Wingo on 8th drive).

Thanks for summarizing all of these plays.  They  give a better perspective.  I am sure these will all be reviewed in the film room and hopefully we will see improvements during the season.  Remember in Arch’s two starts last year, his first one he looked a little rough and the second game he looked more polished.  I know this wasn’t his first start, but it was his first start against a team of equal talent on the road in a hostile environment.  I think what we see in Gainesville will be night and day difference.

[Texas fan in Georgia]

2 minutes ago, CGG said:

Thanks for summarizing all of these plays.  They  give a better perspective.  I am sure these will all be reviewed in the film room and hopefully we will see improvements during the season.  Remember in Arch’s two starts last year, his first one he looked a little rough and the second game he looked more polished.  I know this wasn’t his first start, but it was his first start against a team of equal talent on the road in a hostile environment.  I think what we see in Gainesville will be night and day difference.

It’ll be a night and day difference all right. Bc that game will indeed be played at night. 

[HDub1995]

3 hours ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

Arch will improve as he gains more experience. That is a given. To what level … we shall see.

Sark has been coaching for 25 years. Does he need 30? Or 40 years of experience to get more creative in the red zone? Anyone that watches college football sees creativity an the RZ from coast to coast

Is it common for college coaches to seek outside help with executing in the RZ? Is this an ego thing for Sark? I don’t get it. 

[drag worm]

3 hours ago, Bobby Burton said:

Good points.

Ohio State wasn’t buying into the play-action fake IMO. That’s why there was rarely anyone open deep.

They were willing to give up 5 yards runs and keep their safeties deep. 

That Buckeyes defense requires us to lean on a punishing running back that can take over a game. (We don’t have one) or go bully ball with our QB like Auburn did in Waco Friday night. The third choice, ironically, is to pick them apart with short passes like Quinn would have done last year. Arch’s lack of touch on short passes was frankly shocking yesterday for a kid who has been groomed in QB camps his whole life. 

Edited 4 hours ago by drag worm

[drag worm]

3 hours ago, Bobby Burton said:

Good points.

Ohio State wasn’t buying into the play-action fake IMO. That’s why there was rarely anyone open deep.

They were willing to give up 5 yards runs and keep their safeties deep. 

The Buckeyes defense requires us to lean on a running back that can punish them and take over a game. (We don’t have one) or go bully ball with our QB like Auburn did in Waco Friday night. The third choice, ironically, is to pick them apart with short passes like Quinn would have done last year. Arch’s lack of touch on short passes was frankly shocking yesterday for a kid who has been groomed in QB camps his whole life. 

[alrightalrightalright]

4 minutes ago, Texas fan in Georgia said:

It’ll be a night and day difference all right. Bc that game will indeed be played at night. 

100%. Unless Lagway is injured coming out of the Miami and LSU games, it will definitely be at night, ABC will want that game

[HDub1995]

1 hour ago, marathon said:

Wingo is our only player that would scare a DC. Double him and who else do we have that is explosive?

Last year we had Golden, Wingo, Bond (until his injury) and Blue.

We had Worthy and Bijan year one. Worthy, Bijan and Blue year two. Worthy, Mitchell and Blue year 3.

I’m going to keep saying this until proven otherwise. I believe the staff took the wrong approach this offseason believing in a bunch of unproven guys. Even Wingo is not proven. Obviously you can’t account for Mosley being hurt, but I’m not sure how explosive he is. It’s a little weird to me how the staff is more so prioritizing size over speed at the position lately. 
 

There was Zachariah Branch, Barrion Brown, KC Conception, etc in the portal and all are fairly explosive. We’ll see how it plays out, but I don’t love the weapons on offense. 

[Uneekhorn]

3 hours ago, CJ Vogel said:

Week ones are good for overreactions and out of proportion takes that typically don't age well, so read into this as you wish.

However, when scouring over the numbers and tape again this morning, there was a clear part of the passing game that felt worse than others – play action passes.

The numbers back it up too.

***

Arch on Play Action Pass Attempts

• 10 drop backs
• 5-10 passing
• 26 yards
• 2.6 yards per attempt
• 1 INT
• 2 turnover worthy plays

Arch on Straight Drop Backs

• 24 drop backs
• 12-20 passing
• 144 yards
• 7.4 yards per attempts
• 1 TD
• 0 turnover worthy plays

Perhaps part of the offensive struggles on play action snaps include the average distance of target. On PA snaps, Arch's average distance of target was 11.9, compared to 8.8 on straight drop backs.

***

We will see over the next three weeks how this trend continues, but file this one in the growing "Didn't Expect That" folder from the season opener.

@CJ Vogel I think what some people have overlooked was impart this is OSU being able to gameplan for Sark's offense really well, having had data and played against it before-but Texas having to guess a bit at what the defense would do. I do give Arch a pass on this game but this week I would work on fundamentals, fundamentals, and more fundamentals! Back to basics is the word and key this week and a couple weeks to hone those practices before Florida! Just my 2 cents.

Edited 4 hours ago by kevin nacoste

[Dread-headed Texan]

1 hour ago, CoachBobbyFinstock said:

Let me stop you on Klubnik. That dude ran for his life from pressure.  LSU came after him constantly with blitzes from all over. Arch, OTOH, just flat missed guys on several occasions. Arch would have been sacked  by LSU so many times it wouldn’t have been funny. Clemson had no run game and their Oline isn’t anything special. Just keeping it real.

No he was NOT! Cade often left the pocket too early or held the ball too long. Often times mobile qbs look as if they're under tremendous pressure when most of that pressure is of they're own making. LSU wasn't man handling Clemson at the LOS. 

[HookemChappy]

17 minutes ago, drag worm said:

The Buckeyes defense requires us to lean on a running back that can punish them and take over a game. (We don’t have one) or go bully ball with our QB like Auburn did in Waco Friday night. The third choice, ironically, is to pick them apart with short passes like Quinn would have done last year. Arch’s lack of touch on short passes was frankly shocking yesterday for a kid who has been groomed in QB camps his whole life. 

They love the deep ball in camps. They don’t teach touch. They teach rip it.

[diegozanna20]

1 hour ago, Thanos72 said:

The bigger concern is arch and his throwing motion change. If his issue is that he loses his mechanics when nervous, he’s done. That’s a death knell for any qb. That’s the entire thing for me. It simply can’t be his kryptonite. If it truly is, you’d have to move on. It’s the equivalent of a kicker’s yips. The problem is he had decent time more often than not. It was almost he was trying to win the game with each throw. The real issue will be if arch has a permanent mental thing in games, we’re cooked because there’s zero chance sark benches him. 

What is super concerning for me is that maybe we now know why arch wasn’t put in last year for a 50% injured quinn. This is what has me thinking it’s not a one game thing. Yesterday wasn’t a qb struggling against this elite defense. OSU will lose games this year if the other team can score. The defense was okay. We were worse than they were good. Hell, aggies using lsu reed would have scored more yesterday. 

Something bigger feels off to me and I don’t normally leave bad games like this. Maybe it’s as simple as arch did this to arch vs the defense dictating it. Sark trying to mask it with they were elite at disguising coverage still is insufficient. With the exception of 2 drives late, his mechanics and throws were off all game regardless of coverage or pressure. Yeesh!

Here come the overractions, once again

[PinchPullPancake]

Mechanics and missing reads can be fixed. My biggest takeaway from yesterday is between the end of last season and yesterday Sark had Co broke Arch. I didn’t see the same fire and swagger he played with last year. We need that version to show up, not the one that played yesterday.

[diegozanna20]

If there's two positives from yesterday about Arch is that he is a real threat running and he also maneuvers the pocket really well.
His problem yesterday was not about being afraid of getting hit, like Quinn was...
For someone with 3 starts he moves really well but he just had no confidence inside the pocket... Wasn't stepping into throws, flat footed, side arming the ball or sailing it high...
The biggest concern I have is processing, because I believe he has the mechanics and footwork to make the easy stuff automatic but if you wanna play in the NFL you gotta throw the guys open, you can't wait for them to get open.

To me yesterday looked like the Arch we saw in his first spring game: skipping the ball on the ground, sailing it high, etc...

Last I'd like to point out was how bad he looked against ULM and how much better he looked the week after, regardless of competition.
It wouldn't be a good sign for your QB to be inconsistent but It'd make sense given it's his 3rd start and you'd hope he gets more level headed with experience

Edited 3 hours ago by diegozanna20

[Oldest Horn]

1 hour ago, CoachBobbyFinstock said:

We’ll agree to disagree then. Klubnik is better at avoiding pressure at this stage and he is really fast. 

How many touchdowns did Clemson score yesterday?

[diegozanna20]

1 hour ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

This 100%

I thought if there's one thing that Arch did well other than running yesterday was actually maneuvering the pocket.
If he played for clemson in that game the problem for him wouldn't have been taking sacks it would've been the same problem he had yesterday which was bad mechanics, footwork and processing (pretty important things for a QB)

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

1 hour ago, SADBoyzUnite said:

Cross posting something I shared elsewhere, but here it goes. 
 

I think the following list captures the 11 uncatchable throws stat that ESPN shared.

 

Not to bury the lead either, but the rewatch was far more favorable to Arch than I had thought it was going to be (IMO; watching live felt like a nightmare).

I think mistakes in highly emotionally charged times of the game (e.g. first play of the day; last offensive drive of the game) accentuated the disdain for his performance.

Without further ado, his “mistakes” drive by drive. Please challenge me if you think anything should be added or removed.


1st drive:
-Short on pass to Moore (1st play of game)
-4th and 2: RPO and goes with the handoff; should have held and pass (Endries wide open for easy pickup)

2nd drive:
-3rd and 11: would need All22 to see if anything was missed downfield, but he took the check down and we punted 

3rd drive:
-1st play had errant throw to Endries; watching live thought he just missed, but he is hit up high by a DL just as he releases, hence the off throw 

4th drive: 
-1st and 10 after the first first down. Low pass to Moore that may have been picked by Downs if it was any higher. Tight window. No one else looked open, other than a check down.

5th drive:
-1st and 10. He sails a pass on Livingstone (slant). Think he saw it late (working through progressions), then quick hitched it and it sailed.


(HALFTIME)

6th Drive:
-1st and 10 after the first first down. Low ball to Moore for a WR screen. Probably immediately tackled, but him slipping to catch it low led to a loss of 3 on the play.

7th Drive:
-Interception (thrown short for sure, but also late, which gave the corner time to ID that ball)

8th Drive:
-Near interception was throw into too tight of coverage 
-3rd and 3 on the 9. Hits Wingo low on the crosser. 

9th Drive:
-Perfection. TD Drive.

10th Drive:
-1st play, sailed it to Wingo on a far and wide toss. Very hard throw period.
-Low and behind on Endries (2nd and 5)
-High and slightly behind Wingo on a crosser (reminiscent of miss on Wingo on 8th drive).

Accurate description of his day. Here’s the video of each of these throws

 

[birdlaw5895]

2 hours ago, TexMexHorn94 said:

There was plenty of WRs in the portal too, this is gonna be point of criticism all year of our only play maker at WR is Wingo. I thought we would be all in these two years with Arch, we definitely invested into the defense but offensively we lack explosive playmakers.

We have no weapons out wide - this offense could remain a very tough watch