Is Shohei Ohtani the best we have ever seen in sports?

[Gerry Hamilton]

 

[Oldest Horn]

1 hour ago, 4thandFive said:

Obligatory “need a salary cap in baseball” post.

 

Ohtani is going to go down as one of the greatest ever. But I still don’t like what the Dodgers have done- it’s sleazy and unfair.

Yes, we need laws to protect owners from making business decisions. Also, let’s have congress set caps on player compensation in college football while allowing for eight figure buyouts for coaches not to coach. 
 

Sorry, but I believe in free enterprise. 

[DanielOnorato]

Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Chamberlain, Jim Brown, Ruth, Ohtani and probably a few others could be added to the rare air up there. Incredible performance for the Los Angeles Allstars.

[Ronald Dato]

Gerry, if Ohtain played football, what position would he play?

[Gerry Hamilton]

28 minutes ago, Ronald Dato said:

Gerry, if Ohtain played football, what position would he play?

6-4, 210, throws 100-102MPH and can move ... would have been tried at QB 1, 2, and 3 

[Jordan91]

6 hours ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

This is a serious question… 

Is Shohei Ohtani the best we have ever seen in pro sports … any sport?

Hitting 3 HR’s and striking out 10 in 6 scoreless innings in an NL Pennant clinching game is otherworldly. We will very likely never see that done again, unless he betters it. 

He continues to defy and do things I never thought I would see a singular player or athlete do.

MJ, Ali and Ruth(he was a pitcher too). Then I go to Bo Jackson. He was good enough to be a hall of famer in two sports.

 

[alrightalrightalright]

I had to go look at the box score to ensure that was in 1 game and not the series. WOW 👀, yes no question that’s the greatest performance I’ve ever heard of. 

[DanielOnorato]

19 minutes ago, Jordan91 said:

MJ, Ali and Ruth(he was a pitcher too). Then I go to Bo Jackson. He was good enough to be a hall of famer in two sports.

 

As good as Ali was it's pretty crazy that 188 pound rocky Marciano went 49-0.

P4P arguably the best to ever do it. If Rocky had been 6'5 230 he'd probably have decapitated somebody.

Was before my time but Jim Thorpe and Ted Williams were spectacular in many areas.

Many argue Jim Brown was better at lacrosse than he was at football. My grandfather saw him dominate Lacrosse for Syracuse at Holy Cross. 

[Burnt Orange Horn]

Best in baseball, no doubt.

[alrightalrightalright]

Those strikeouts were filthy. I counted 2 in the zone, he got the Brewers swinging at anything.

[.45s]

Ohtani may wind up being the GOAT of all sports. 

 

I used to read a lot of stat books, and this is a bit like comparing apples and oranges but the reference above about Babe Ruth reminded me of an interesting stat of his that demonstrated his skills compared to others at the time.  Not only was he a great pitcher early on, but after being traded from Boston (where he still may hold some records) he played the field for the Yankees.  Regarding his homeruns-  Babe Ruth hit more home runs in a single season than every other team in his league multiple times. For example, in 1921, he hit 59 home runs and out-homered every other team in the American League. In 1927, he hit 60 home runs and also out-homered all other teams.  

Guess how many hundreds of homeruns in a season a current player would have to hit to have hit more than every team in the league?  Well, this year the Yankees hit 274 in the AL and the Dodgers hit 244.  If Ohtani went on the juice maybe he could do it too.  🤣

[genevalonghorn]

If you limit it to pro sports, you have to also talk about MJ, Tom Brady, Tiger, and to a lesser extent, LeBron (not trying to have the MJ/LeBron debate) and Mahomes.

If you are pulling in non-pro sports, you have to talk about Michael Phelps.  That’s a benchmark that nobody may ever clear.

[genevalonghorn]

37 minutes ago, DanielOnorato said:

As good as Ali was it's pretty crazy that 188 pound rocky Marciano went 49-0.

P4P arguably the best to ever do it. If Rocky had been 6'5 230 he'd probably have decapitated somebody.

Was before my time but Jim Thorpe and Ted Williams were spectacular in many areas.

Many argue Jim Brown was better at lacrosse than he was at football. My grandfather saw him dominate Lacrosse for Syracuse at Holy Cross. 

In my mind, you have to value championships in this kind of conversation.  That’s what will hold back a Ted Williams, as great as he was, and a Jim Brown.  GOATs are made in the high leverage spots, not in garbage time.
 

 

[DanielOnorato]

9 minutes ago, genevalonghorn said:

In my mind, you have to value championships in this kind of conversation.  That’s what will hold back a Ted Williams, as great as he was, and a Jim Brown.  GOATs are made in the high leverage spots, not in garbage time.
 

 

Understood but Williams is also in the Fishing hall of fame and missed time to serve in the war so I have to loop him in. Had he not missed his age 24,25 and 26 seasons for service he'd easily have 3,000 hits , 600 homers with his .344 career average. If it was modern day no salary cap he could pull an ohtani and go to the best team on the planet. Williams lost in 7 games in the 1946 world series but only went 5-25 (.200). Playoffs use to solely be the world series back then as the winner of the NL and AL would face off based on winning the regular season..no wild card or chance to get hot for a short stretch and surprise, so Williams only played in one. The Yankees were murderers row. 

 

Brown won an NFL championship in 1964. 

Edited 3 hours ago by DanielOnorato

[THookem]

Rick Wise ‘71

https://baseballhall.org/discover/short-stops/rick-wise-no-hitter

Edited 3 hours ago by THookem

[genevalonghorn]

If you go that route with Ted Williams, you have to go the same route with MJ, given the hiatus for baseball.  And what if Tiger Woods didn’t foul up his body and everything else in his life?  (He came back and somehow won the 2019 Masters, which adds to his resume in this discussion.) And what if Mike Tyson didn’t have all of his issues?  To me, it all comes out in the wash, and you take what the athletes actually did.

Then again, Ted Williams might still thaw out one of these days.  🙂

[Oldest Horn]

1 hour ago, DanielOnorato said:

As good as Ali was it's pretty crazy that 188 pound rocky Marciano went 49-0.

P4P arguably the best to ever do it. If Rocky had been 6'5 230 he'd probably have decapitated somebody.

Was before my time but Jim Thorpe and Ted Williams were spectacular in many areas.

Many argue Jim Brown was better at lacrosse than he was at football. My grandfather saw him dominate Lacrosse for Syracuse at Holy Cross. 

Brown was responsible for rule changes effective to this day in lacrosse. He was that good. 

[Raistlin]

7 hours ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

This is a serious question… 

Is Shohei Ohtani the best we have ever seen in pro sports … any sport?

Hitting 3 HR’s and striking out 10 in 6 scoreless innings in an NL Pennant clinching game is otherworldly. We will very likely never see that done again, unless he betters it. 

He continues to defy and do things I never thought I would see a singular player or athlete do.

 Baseball, maybe.  But he is no Michael Jordan or even Bo Jackson.

[DanielOnorato]

13 minutes ago, genevalonghorn said:

If you go that route with Ted Williams, you have to go the same route with MJ, given the hiatus for baseball.  And what if Tiger Woods didn’t foul up his body and everything else in his life?  (He came back and somehow won the 2019 Masters, which adds to his resume in this discussion.) And what if Mike Tyson didn’t have all of his issues?  To me, it all comes out in the wash, and you take what the athletes actually did.

Then again, Ted Williams might still thaw out one of these days.  🙂

It would have gone that route with ohtani if they didn't throw his translator under the bus 😂 

[Bobbers]

7 hours ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

 

I think Wilt Chamberlain is in the discussion.

His 100 point game is just as impressive as what you saw last night.

He declared that he wanted to be a better team player and get more assists in the following year he led the NBA in assist as well.

[CJ Vogel]

Yep, the greatest ever. 

[justwinbaby]

Babe Ruth and Gordie Howe did what they did without all of the training and nutrition of today’s athletes.  They also had much cruder sports medicine without the advances in surgery and recovery.

Ohtani is doing great things.

[EyesofTexas]

There was a 15 year stretch in the NBA where if you had LeBron on your team, you had a shot to win it all no matter who the rest of your roster was. He did it on both sides of the ball every night. 
 

From 05-18 he was the best player in the league. From 03-25 he was top 5. We’ll probably never see anything like it again in sports. 

[Steamboat Willie]

I don’t know if he is the best, but i can’t think of many I would have higher on my list. Last night was mind boggling. 

[Robert Gilbert]

8 hours ago, Gerry Hamilton said:

Major League Baseball records …

Most seasons with at least 50 home runs and 20 stolen bases: The only player with multiple seasons to achieve this combination. 

First pitcher to hit a leadoff home run in a postseason game: A record he set in the NLCS. 

Tied record for most ballparks hit in a single season: Hit home runs in 18 different ballparks. 

First player in MLB history with a 50-50 season: Achieved in 2024 with 50 home runs and 50 stolen bases. 

I think he is the best player in baseball. However, I need to see several more seasons at this high level of play before he will be the GOAT in baseball, much less in all pro sports. Babe Ruth is IMO the GOAT in baseball.