Texas' future offensive identity

[diegozanna20]

It seems clear to me what the plan on defense is:
- Aggression, energy, effort;
- Man Coverage that ties well with the aggresive fronts.

But what is the plan going to be on offense?
Does Sark want to go back to the original plan at the start of the season (a lot of 12 personell, heavy run game up the middle tied up with play action, lot of 7 step drop PA concepts with Arch snapping the ball under center) or stick with the thing that seemingly worked really well for Arch (spread offense, get it out quick most of the time, lot of straight dropbacks with bunch formations, etc...)?
I think it's very doable to tie in a more heavy downhill running game with what arch does best without having to resort to 12 personell sets (Do we have the guys for 12P?)...

I guess it all comes down to what Sark thinks was the reason for the struggles early on... Was it Arch having the yips? Was it just because of the lackluster running game? Was it the OL? Were the passing concepts (Having an ADOT of 20 against Florida) too "bold" and unsustainable?

We're probably going to get a better picture about what the plan is after the portal but for the most important thing is just having a clear cut idenity... doesn't matter what that identity is.

Edited 8 hours ago by diegozanna20

[hookem1014]

I think that answer will come after the bowl game. Let’s see if Sark makes more staff changes on offense and what kind of personnel we bring in from the portal. 

[whereiend]

Good question.

IMO Arch is a football player and we should let him make plays. No need for the slow developing play action schemed deep shots.

Just give him some receiving options and let him keep his eyes down field.

[diegozanna20]

20 minutes ago, whereiend said:

Good question.

IMO Arch is a football player and we should let him make plays. No need for the slow developing play action schemed deep shots.

Just give him some receiving options and let him keep his eyes down field.

I see Arch thriving more in the kind of offense that Burrow ran in 2019 rather than Mac Jones at Bama(with Sark as the OC), for example...
I feel like he needs to get in a rhythm and throw all over the field... Arch chuking it deep off of PA all day wouldn't work IMO

[Here for the Wins]

2 hours ago, diegozanna20 said:

I guess it all comes down to what Sark thinks was the reason for the struggles early on... Was it Arch having the yips? 

This yips discussion is ridiculous.

Arch versus A&M had as many poor throws as any game.  The rollout right that was nowhere near the WR.  The ball well short of Endries in the left flat.  The early second half ball in the dirt after leaving the pocket to a wide open WR in the end zone.  Even the TD to Wingo was a little off.  That’s 3 balls in one game that were as bad as any in any game.  Yet not a single, solitary yips discussion.

Sometimes a QB just throws a crappy ball.  Sometimes the QBs rhythm is off because of pressure.  Sometimes a QBs timing is off for a myriad of reasons - maybe it’s inconsistent route running, maybe the play calling hasn’t gotten him into the flow of the game or maybe that’s not the QBs strength.
 

It is merely speculation but yeah I’m sure he was nervous at OSU, but Sark and the run game fell short of making a difference.  I’d wager OSU gave him some looks that were not anticipated then they made some good plays.  The pressure was pretty constant too.  Nevermind it was game 1 and as Bobby told us the QB and WRs really had limited work together thru the spring and into summer.

Arch was pretty solid versus SJSU yet I’ve read numerous times on boards that was not the case.  Or maybe just think real hard at the ball at Wingo’s feet and think “that’s the yips”  as if that’s indicative of how the game played out.  Nevermind if you watch closely the route is questionable but the effort is poor on attempting to catch the ball.  Ignore those plays he evades the rush and hits the receiver in stride because of a penalty or a drop.

UTEP.  Sark screwed this one up.  I don’t remember how I calculated it, but it was 70/30 run pass ratio.  For the previous 16-ish games that I reviewed only 3 were greater than 50/50 with only 1 at 60/40 in favor of run.  Given the run game struggles to that point, it was clear the preparation for the week and the gameplan was work the run game.  Nevermind that Wisner was out.  Baxter got 1 play.  Moore didn’t play.  Moseley still was out.  And on drive 1, on 4th and 4, Arch “yips” it into the ground.  Or the truth is that when your QB is moving left you as a WR do not keep moving to his extreme right.  Arch anticipated reasonably well.  Wingo did not.  As a result the pass looked terrible.  Watch it again.  If Wingo sits, it is right there.  Then against OU we saw a great example of how Wingo should have responded in such a situation.  First down.  Then we had a sequence of poor Arch plays, but there are only 3 of real significance.  Two were overthrows and one non-throw.  The ultimate failing was on Sark here with the gameplan.  It’s quite possible that if we get a normal plan with respect to run/pass, that we score more, the QB gains confidence and the arm chair QBing wanes sooner.   Yeah the QB needs to hit the throws but I’ve watched two-three games of football and those misses happen.  

Just yesterday I saw Beck completely miss a wide open deep throw and on his first 3rd down throw it was well behind the receiver.  Even the throw that Toney fumbled was on his back shoulder.  Let’s get some Film Guy review of this game. How about it Benkert.

 

[Here for the Wins]

1 hour ago, diegozanna20 said:

I see Arch thriving more in the kind of offense that Burrow ran in 2019 rather than Mac Jones at Bama(with Sark as the OC), for example...
I feel like he needs to get in a rhythm and throw all over the field... Arch chuking it deep off of PA all day wouldn't work IMO

Sorry, I get fired up about stuff.

Your second paragraph here is a big deal.  Get him in a rhythm.  I think Vandy is a great example of this and look at those results.  

To me, it was like we spent the first half of the season trying to be a different offense every week.  That ties into a QB not being in a rhythm.  You can attribute that to the entire offense really.

[diegozanna20]

24 minutes ago, Here for the Wins said:

This yips discussion is ridiculous.

Arch versus A&M had as many poor throws as any game.  The rollout right that was nowhere near the WR.  The ball well short of Endries in the left flat.  The early second half ball in the dirt after leaving the pocket to a wide open WR in the end zone.  Even the TD to Wingo was a little off.  That’s 3 balls in one game that were as bad as any in any game.  Yet not a single, solitary yips discussion.

Sometimes a QB just throws a crappy ball.  Sometimes the QBs rhythm is off because of pressure.  Sometimes a QBs timing is off for a myriad of reasons - maybe it’s inconsistent route running, maybe the play calling hasn’t gotten him into the flow of the game or maybe that’s not the QBs strength.
 

It is merely speculation but yeah I’m sure he was nervous at OSU, but Sark and the run game fell short of making a difference.  I’d wager OSU gave him some looks that were not anticipated then they made some good plays.  The pressure was pretty constant too.  Nevermind it was game 1 and as Bobby told us the QB and WRs really had limited work together thru the spring and into summer.

Arch was pretty solid versus SJSU yet I’ve read numerous times on boards that was not the case.  Or maybe just think real hard at the ball at Wingo’s feet and think “that’s the yips”  as if that’s indicative of how the game played out.  Nevermind if you watch closely the route is questionable but the effort is poor on attempting to catch the ball.  Ignore those plays he evades the rush and hits the receiver in stride because of a penalty or a drop.

UTEP.  Sark screwed this one up.  I don’t remember how I calculated it, but it was 70/30 run pass ratio.  For the previous 16-ish games that I reviewed only 3 were greater than 50/50 with only 1 at 60/40 in favor of run.  Given the run game struggles to that point, it was clear the preparation for the week and the gameplan was work the run game.  Nevermind that Wisner was out.  Baxter got 1 play.  Moore didn’t play.  Moseley still was out.  And on drive 1, on 4th and 4, Arch “yips” it into the ground.  Or the truth is that when your QB is moving left you as a WR do not keep moving to his extreme right.  Arch anticipated reasonably well.  Wingo did not.  As a result the pass looked terrible.  Watch it again.  If Wingo sits, it is right there.  Then against OU we saw a great example of how Wingo should have responded in such a situation.  First down.  Then we had a sequence of poor Arch plays, but there are only 3 of real significance.  Two were overthrows and one non-throw.  The ultimate failing was on Sark here with the gameplan.  It’s quite possible that if we get a normal plan with respect to run/pass, that we score more, the QB gains confidence and the arm chair QBing wanes sooner.   Yeah the QB needs to hit the throws but I’ve watched two-three games of football and those misses happen.  

Just yesterday I saw Beck completely miss a wide open deep throw and on his first 3rd down throw it was well behind the receiver.  Even the throw that Toney fumbled was on his back shoulder.  Let’s get some Film Guy review of this game. How about it Benkert.

 

I 100% agree that the "yips" discussion was way overblown early on, but I do think there was some "trepidation" or "hesitancy" from Arch in where to look on the field(Which is very normal for a guy having his first start on the road at the shoe against the defending national champions and a defense led by a previous NFL DC).
I'm no QB expert but early on I felt like Arch wasn't sure about what he was looking at or wasn't trusting what he was seeing, at times.
Like he didn't know where his eyes should go.
Whether that was due to not trusting the OL or the receivers or even himself I don't know, but there's a clear difference in deceisiveness from the early games to the last games of the season.
Even with some inaccuate passes in the last couple of games I never felt like Arch was hesitant or didn't know what was going on.

As for the accuracy issues I don't know where they stem from (Is it because he feels rushed? Is it because it's something he hasn't been polishing in the offseason?) but I know it's all due to his mechanics and how a lot of times he isn't really flicking his wrist when throwing.
It looks to me like he's trying to get the ball up and out so quickly that he "locks his wrist" (Don't know if that's the right term) in the follow-through. Most times it looks he's trying to throw with just his arm alone and that his hips/core/wrist are under utilized.
I hope that's something he works on in the off season cause his throwing motion and footwork is really good but the problem to me relies in his follow-through(where sometimes he also over strides).

Regardless I personally think these aren't huge things to correct in an off season, especially when there's honestly not much else that he REALLY needs to work on(Really great instincts, decision making, etc...).
I think it'd be beneficial for him to polish these issue also to preserve his arm long term and to have a long career in the NFL, cause while I get the whole argument about not messing with someone's mechanics if it's working, right now Arch's mechanics don't look effortless at all. Sometimes it looks like it hurts him to throw like that.
I guess the result he got this season are even more impressing for a guy that still has a long road ahead in terms of reaching his full potential.

Edited 4 hours ago by diegozanna20

[Jaybird]

Arch had them early on. Not even up for debate and it was not overblown. 

 

Sark wants the offense to be like Georgia's this year, 12-13 personnel, heavy play action. 

Sark needed it to be like 09 Texas, saw some pivot to that later in the season but could've come sooner IMO.

[Raistlin]

4 hours ago, diegozanna20 said:

It seems clear to me what the plan on defense is:
- Aggression, energy, effort;
- Man Coverage that ties well with the aggresive fronts.

But what is the plan going to be on offense?
Does Sark want to go back to the original plan at the start of the season (a lot of 12 personell, heavy run game up the middle tied up with play action, lot of 7 step drop PA concepts with Arch snapping the ball under center) or stick with the thing that seemingly worked really well for Arch (spread offense, get it out quick most of the time, lot of straight dropbacks with bunch formations, etc...)?
I think it's very doable to tie in a more heavy downhill running game with what arch does best without having to resort to 12 personell sets (Do we have the guys for 12P?)...

I guess it all comes down to what Sark thinks was the reason for the struggles early on... Was it Arch having the yips? Was it just because of the lackluster running game? Was it the OL? Were the passing concepts (Having an ADOT of 20 against Florida) too "bold" and unsustainable?

We're probably going to get a better picture about what the plan is after the portal but for the most important thing is just having a clear cut idenity... doesn't matter what that identity is.

The tell about where Sark is headed with the 2026 offense will be Portal acquisitions.  Are the interior OL we sign better at pass blocking or run blocking?  Do we invest money in a WR1?  Do we get a back that can run inside zone?  Does Endries return and do we get a blocking TE in the Portal?  
 

At this point, I thinks that Sark is comfortable with the direction of the offense from the Miss St game on, with the exception of Georgia.  We ran for 23 yards against Georgia.  I don’t think there will be drastic changes, just an effort to add an inside run game.  If so, the IOL additions will be good at pass blocking but better than Hutson/Robertson at run blocking.  We will add a back that can consistently move the chains and convert in short yardage; we might add a second Blue/Robinson back, but that’s an afterthought.  We should also add a WR of the Golden/Mitchell/Bond caliber. 

[Here for the Wins]

16 minutes ago, Jaybird said:

Arch had them early on. Not even up for debate and it was not overblown. 

 

Sark wants the offense to be like Georgia's this year, 12-13 personnel, heavy play action. 

Sark needed it to be like 09 Texas, saw some pivot to that later in the season but could've come sooner IMO.

Yips as it’s been referenced historically is guys that have had career altering issues.  
 

There was absolutely none of that here.  Not close.

[Jaybird]

28 minutes ago, Here for the Wins said:

Yips as it’s been referenced historically is guys that have had career altering issues.  
 

There was absolutely none of that here.  Not close.

Tiger Woods has had them, pitchers/catchers have had them, even Bryce Young had them this year and had to be benched. Unless we have different definitions of what the Yips are, think it's safe to say Archie had them at the start of the year. We witnessed him throw balls into the dirt on basic crossing routes, not to mention the wild overthrows on screens. 

[Here for the Wins]

1 hour ago, diegozanna20 said:

I 100% agree that the "yips" discussion was way overblown early on, but I do think there was some "trepidation" or "hesitancy" from Arch in where to look on the field(Which is very normal for a guy having his first start on the road at the shoe against the defending national champions and a defense led by a previous NFL DC).
I'm no QB expert but early on I felt like Arch wasn't sure about what he was looking at or wasn't trusting what he was seeing, at times.
Like he didn't know where his eyes should go.
Whether that was due to not trusting the OL or the receivers or even himself I don't know, but there's a clear difference in deceisiveness from the early games to the last games of the season.
Even with some inaccuate passes in the last couple of games I never felt like Arch was hesitant or didn't know what was going on.

As for the accuracy issues I don't know where they stem from (Is it because he feels rushed? Is it because it's something he hasn't been polishing in the offseason?) but I know it's all due to his mechanics and how a lot of times he isn't really flicking his wrist when throwing.
It looks to me like he's trying to get the ball up and out so quickly that he "locks his wrist" (Don't know if that's the right term) in the follow-through. Most times it looks he's trying to throw with just his arm alone and that his hips/core/wrist are under utilized.
I hope that's something he works on in the off season cause his throwing motion and footwork is really good but the problem to me relies in his follow-through(where sometimes he also over strides).

Regardless I personally think these aren't huge things to correct in an off season, especially when there's honestly not much else that he REALLY needs to work on(Really great instincts, decision making, etc...).
I think it'd be beneficial for him to polish these issue also to preserve his arm long term and to have a long career in the NFL, cause while I get the whole argument about not messing with someone's mechanics if it's working, right now Arch's mechanics don't look effortless at all. Sometimes it looks like it hurts him to throw like that.
I guess the result he got this season are even more impressing for a guy that still has a long road ahead in terms of reaching his full potential.

Sure, limited experience will always lead to some hesitation.  And that’s what good to great defenses like Ohio State will do to you.  Even veteran QBs.  It’s possible that a Caleb Downs can make that more difficult.  Indiana with a very experienced QB that ran up lots of points against a number of teams struggled to finish drives and get points against OSU.  It was not because guys were never open.  And they had 12 games of tape whereas we went in blind.

It’s speculative on my part, but there are reasons to believe Arch knows the game, how to read a defense, etc.  You can use that against a guy.   Give him the read that dictates where you want him to go with ball, but that false read was never the actual defense. And their pass rush is good enough, consistent enough so that it’s harder to go pre-snap read to post -snap because you don’t have tons of time for the post snap element.

I am not a big mechanics guy.  It’s not that I don’t understand the value of repeatable movements.  But so many big plays are off schedule that’s it’s as much instinctive as anything.  It’s difficult to get those mechanics learned because practice is almost always controlled.  The more reps you get in live fire the better you potentially get instinctively and mechanically because you know what works and what doesn’t.  As an individual player rather than what the coaching book says.

i am a big fan of what he brings to the table.  It’s still a team game.  For his game, I just want him to progress.  There will always be chances to pick apart plays here or there.  Just make enough so that the end result is in our favor.

[Here for the Wins]

7 minutes ago, Jaybird said:

Tiger Woods has had them, pitchers/catchers have had them, even Bryce Young had them this year and had to be benched. Unless we have different definitions of what the Yips are, think it's safe to say Archie had them at the start of the year. We witnessed him throw balls into the dirt on basic crossing routes, not to mention the wild overthrows on screens. 

Then he had them against A&M.  Because again, 3 of his top 10 worst throws all year were in that game.  Maybe 3 of the 5 worst.  

Steve Sax, Chuck Knoblauch, Rick Ankiel.  Those were the most known in baseball.  Basically ended their careers as they were.

“The "yips" are a sudden, involuntary loss of fine motor skills in sports, causing an athlete to mess up routine actions, often due to extreme performance anxiety or neurological issues, manifesting as twitches or loss of concentration, common in golf (putting) and baseball (throwing) but seen in many sports. It's a psychological and physiological phenomenon where the brain-muscle connection gets disrupted, leading to poor performance under pressure, sometimes linked to overuse or stress.”  Per our friend AI.

When Arch underthrows his first throw of the season, with pressure in his face no less, then hits his second on the money.  I’d never say the first was a yip.  The misses on the short crossers to Wingo at Ohio State were part poor throw based on finding the passing lane, part pressure.  The first one he threw a nice ball to Parker on the very next play.  One underthrown ball to Wingo versus SJSU when his adjusted completion percentage is near 80% is not really a yip.

Golf is a completely different game.  What we saw from Arch was called quarterbacking.  But, yeah, I suppose we have different definitions and the connotation of the term is more extreme than he made some poor throws.

[Jaybird]

1 hour ago, Here for the Wins said:

Then he had them against A&M.  Because again, 3 of his top 10 worst throws all year were in that game.  Maybe 3 of the 5 worst.  

Steve Sax, Chuck Knoblauch, Rick Ankiel.  Those were the most known in baseball.  Basically ended their careers as they were.

“The "yips" are a sudden, involuntary loss of fine motor skills in sports, causing an athlete to mess up routine actions, often due to extreme performance anxiety or neurological issues, manifesting as twitches or loss of concentration, common in golf (putting) and baseball (throwing) but seen in many sports. It's a psychological and physiological phenomenon where the brain-muscle connection gets disrupted, leading to poor performance under pressure, sometimes linked to overuse or stress.”  Per our friend AI.

When Arch underthrows his first throw of the season, with pressure in his face no less, then hits his second on the money.  I’d never say the first was a yip.  The misses on the short crossers to Wingo at Ohio State were part poor throw based on finding the passing lane, part pressure.  The first one he threw a nice ball to Parker on the very next play.  One underthrown ball to Wingo versus SJSU when his adjusted completion percentage is near 80% is not really a yip.

Golf is a completely different game.  What we saw from Arch was called quarterbacking.  But, yeah, I suppose we have different definitions and the connotation of the term is more extreme than he made some poor throws.

We can agree to disagree. Based on the definition by our mutual friend, I'd argue what we saw is a textbook case. 

[drag worm]

Lotta revisionist history in this thread. Arch was either woefully unprepared to take over the starting spot at QB after two seasons on campus or he had a serious mental block going on when attempting to complete straight forward passes to wide open receivers during the first half of the season. Yes, the OL was awful and the running game was non existent but Arch’s inability to confidently quarterback the offense was apparent to anyone watching those games. We know because of the second half of the season that it wasn’t just an inability to play the position. He grew into the role mentally and physically. It was basically like watching a true freshman QB evolving as a season goes on instead of a third year sophomore. 
 

To the point of the OPs question, if history is any indication go back to the 2010 offseason where Mack attempted to model his spread offense into more of the power running ball control offense that Muschamp wanted to complement his D with. We all know how that went, by halftime of the Rice opener. (A fascinating game to rewatch btw.)

Sark seems perfectly capable of building via the portal and running an offense that will provide complimentary football to Muschamps side of the ball so I’d imagine things go better this time around. 

[LILP]

7 hours ago, diegozanna20 said:

It seems clear to me what the plan on defense is:
- Aggression, energy, effort;
- Man Coverage that ties well with the aggresive fronts.

But what is the plan going to be on offense?
Does Sark want to go back to the original plan at the start of the season (a lot of 12 personell, heavy run game up the middle tied up with play action, lot of 7 step drop PA concepts with Arch snapping the ball under center) or stick with the thing that seemingly worked really well for Arch (spread offense, get it out quick most of the time, lot of straight dropbacks with bunch formations, etc...)?
I think it's very doable to tie in a more heavy downhill running game with what arch does best without having to resort to 12 personell sets (Do we have the guys for 12P?)...

I guess it all comes down to what Sark thinks was the reason for the struggles early on... Was it Arch having the yips? Was it just because of the lackluster running game? Was it the OL? Were the passing concepts (Having an ADOT of 20 against Florida) too "bold" and unsustainable?

We're probably going to get a better picture about what the plan is after the portal but for the most important thing is just having a clear cut idenity... doesn't matter what that identity is.

Fantastic question!
 

Imagine being lethal  enough at a run game, mid range and quick passes so that we can tailor a game plan based our opponent’s weaknesses as opposed to ours. @CJ Vogel what are your thoughts as we enter next season? 

[diegozanna20]

33 minutes ago, drag worm said:

It was basically like watching a true freshman QB evolving as a season goes on instead of a third year sophomore.

Don't agree at all with this.
Bryce Underwood is how a 5 star talent plays as a freshman.
Arch has 31 TDs to 7 ints and 3000 yards.

Call it however you want, Arch had some tough games at OSU, UTEP and against Kentucky.
I said the yips argument was overblown because to me it was more of an up-and-down period that inexprienced QBs go through rather than full blown performance anxiety.
Even at OSU with some really bad moments he had throws that were just wow throws that a QB with the yips wouldn't make.
But again, call it however you want, his performance, early in the season, was just wayyy too inconsistent and it seemingly got a lot better as the season went on.
 

 

33 minutes ago, drag worm said:

To the point of the OPs question, if history is any indication go back to the 2010 offseason where Mack attempted to model his spread offense into more of the power running ball control offense that Muschamp wanted to complement his D with. We all know how that went, by halftime of the Rice opener. (A fascinating game to rewatch btw.)

Sark seems perfectly capable of building via the portal and running an offense that will provide complimentary football to Muschamps side of the ball so I’d imagine things go better this time around. 

We can only guess as of right now but Sark has always been a coach that tries to put his QBs in the absolute best position to succeed.
Having said that I highly doubt that we'll pivot that much from the offense that we ran in the last few weeks cause Arch has been way too successfull in some of the spread concepts that we ran. 
We'll proably go with a combination of spread offense with some PA to go with a more diverse and multiple running game

Edited 32 minutes ago by diegozanna20