Where does Sark belong?

[Forrest J.]

I’ve been watching sports for over 50 years, long enough to see hype cycles come and go, dynasties rise and fall, and coaching reputations built on everything from rings to press conferences. So I’ve formulated my own coaching tier system. Not based on media narratives, fan loyalty, or sideline swagger — just on what these coaches actually do with the teams they’re handed.

Some build greatness no matter the circumstance. Some need a roster full of Ferraris to get out of the garage. And some are masters of the rebuild — turning misfits into contenders, but never quite crossing the finish line.

Here’s how I break it down. Feel free to argue, add names, or call me crazy. And while we’re at it… where does Sark land in all this?

The Savants

These are the true architects. Drop them into any situation — college or pro, football or basketball — and they’ll build a champion from scratch. Doesn’t matter if it’s a reboot, rebuild, a mess, or a no-name roster. They create greatness.

Examples: Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells, Nick Saban, Pat Riley, Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll, Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino, Gregg Popovich

The Gifted & Talented Only Coaches

These guys are elite… if you hand them elite talent. They’ll win titles with a stacked roster, but don’t expect miracles if the cupboard’s bare. Give them a Ferrari, they’ll win the race. Give them a blank canvas, and you’re getting a knockoff Starry Night painted with sidewalk chalk.

Examples: Phil Jackson, Bill Belichick, Steve Kerr, Barry Switzer, Dabo, Jim Harbaugh

The Bad News Bears / Mighty Ducks Coaches

Masters of the rebuild. They’ll take a bunch of misfits and turn them into a legit contender. But they usually stall out before reaching the mountaintop. Great at culture, systems, planning, grit, and overachieving, but they’re missing that final gear — the one that turns contenders into champions.

Examples: Don Nelson, Gary Patterson, Mike Gundy, Charlie Strong, Lincoln Riley, Chris Petersen, Brian Kelly, Frank Beamer, Mike Leach, Bryan Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Sark?

Where do you think Sark belongs?

Edited 4 hours ago by Forrest J.

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

ehh. don't over think it.  the guys you have listed in the higher categories have mostly completed or completed careers.  sark is still young, and has shown trajectory up.  to me he's in the "great trajectory just show me a championship" category..  around a marcus freeman and maybe a bit higher than james franklin (given how slow his trajectory has been).  mack was james franklin before he got the pieces he needed to win a championship.   jimmy johnson inherited a great miami program ala ryan day.  pete carroll and meyer had ridiculous trajectories out of the gate.. probably more so than saban himself.

[Forrest J.]

14 minutes ago, Quinncent McManning, Jr. said:

ehh. don't over think it.  the guys you have listed in the higher categories have mostly completed or completed careers.  sark is still young, and has shown trajectory up.  to me he's in the "great trajectory just show me a championship" category..  around a marcus freeman and maybe a bit higher than james franklin (given how slow his trajectory has been).  mack was james franklin before he got the pieces he needed to win a championship.   jimmy johnson inherited a great miami program ala ryan day.  pete carroll and meyer had ridiculous trajectories out of the gate.. probably more so than saban himself.

Don’t Over think it?  I’ve formulated this opinion over 30 years of observation. Sark has head coached 136 games in college. I think that’s more than enough data to put him in one of the categories.  If you disagree, that’s fine, it’s subjective… but over thinking?  Nah…

[Texas fan in Georgia]

He belongs in the same category as James Franklin.

[Gerry Hamilton]

Third group on the list until he proves otherwise 

[JMarquette]

31 minutes ago, Forrest J. said:

I’ve been watching sports for over 50 years, long enough to see hype cycles come and go, dynasties rise and fall, and coaching reputations built on everything from rings to press conferences. So I’ve formulated my own coaching tier system. Not based on media narratives, fan loyalty, or sideline swagger — just on what these coaches actually do with the teams they’re handed.

Some build greatness no matter the circumstance. Some need a roster full of Ferraris to get out of the garage. And some are masters of the rebuild — turning misfits into contenders, but never quite crossing the finish line.

Here’s how I break it down. Feel free to argue, add names, or call me crazy. And while we’re at it… where does Sark land in all this?

The Savants

These are the true architects. Drop them into any situation — college or pro, football or basketball — and they’ll build a champion from scratch. Doesn’t matter if it’s a reboot, rebuild, a mess, or a no-name roster. They create greatness.

Examples: Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells, Nick Saban, Pat Riley, Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll, Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino, Gregg Popovich

The Gifted & Talented Only Coaches

These guys are elite… if you hand them elite talent. They’ll win titles with a stacked roster, but don’t expect miracles if the cupboard’s bare. Give them a Ferrari, they’ll win the race. Give them a blank canvas, and you’re getting a knockoff Starry Night painted with sidewalk chalk.

Examples: Phil Jackson, Bill Belichick, Steve Kerr, Barry Switzer, Dabo, Jim Harbaugh

The Bad News Bears / Mighty Ducks Coaches

Masters of the rebuild. They’ll take a bunch of misfits and turn them into a legit contender. But they usually stall out before reaching the mountaintop. Great at culture, systems, planning, grit, and overachieving, but they’re missing that final gear — the one that turns contenders into champions.

Examples: Don Nelson, Gary Patterson, Mike Gundy, Charlie Strong, Lincoln Riley, Chris Petersen, Brian Kelly, Frank Beamer, Mike Leach, Bryan Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Sark?

Where do you think Sark belongs?

Your list has contradictions - for example, Saban doesn’t belong in the first category, he left the NFL because he couldn’t cut it. Also, Charlie Strong in 3? Did you watch the 2010’s?
 

Which underlies the problem of your list, there are “tweeners.” Sark is probably a tweener between your “categories” 2 & 3. 

[Forrest J.]

7 minutes ago, Texas fan in Georgia said:

He belongs in the same category as James Franklin.

And Franklin belongs in the third group until proven otherwise. 

[TexasLonghorns]

[Gerry Hamilton]

It’s truly a big season for Sark, with the understanding you appreciate what he has done at Texas

The place you never want to be as a fan in analysis of a program is “the players change, but the results and issues are the same”

Then there is only one answer to your main question. 

[Oldest Horn]

I’m happy with our progress. He’s gotten us back faster than Mack. I’ll reassess after the season. 

[LonghornFan4Ever]

James Franklin is the most obvious answer.  Other options include Brian Kelly, Marcus Freeman, Dan Lanning, and 2019-2023 Ryan Day.

[Forrest J.]

3 minutes ago, JMarquette said:

Your list has contradictions - for example, Saban doesn’t belong in the first category, he left the NFL because he couldn’t cut it. Also, Charlie Strong in 3? Did you watch the 2010’s?
 

Which underlies the problem of your list, there are “tweeners.” Sark is probably a tweener between your “categories” 2 & 3. 

Do you know Sabans history at Michigan St., LSU, and Bama?  Do you know he’s won over 80% of the college games he coached? Turned them all around and made them into contenders. Won titles with multiple schools and sustained excellence at the one place he made home. He left the NFL because it’s a different game. He’s a college coach and he realized that.   You do know that Strong coached before he came to UT right?  This wasn’t his first gig. He was on his way to making Louisville into what Patterson made TCU to be, winning over 70% of his games and going 3-1 in bowl games. His mistake was thinking he’s a Gifted & Talented coach when he’s not. Shoulder have stayed at Louisville and became a legend like Patterson and Gundy. 

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

23 minutes ago, Forrest J. said:

Don’t Over think it?  I’ve formulated this opinion over 30 years of observation. Sark has head coached 136 games in college. I think that’s more than enough data to put him in one of the categories.  If you disagree, that’s fine, it’s subjective… but over thinking?  Nah…

Didn't mean any disrespect.. I actually completely agree with your categorization coaches.. very well thought out.  I'm just saying we as fans jump to labelling coaches and players at that time, when things change.  Sark is on a rapid trajectory now, making it that much more difficult.  If you asked the same question 2 years ago after 5-7.. what would people say?  Is he not the same dude 2 years later with a playoff team in 2 straight years?  I'm not sold that he is the next savior either, but he's not a finished product.  Let's look at your 3rd category from a football standpoint, which could be broken down to more subcategories.

Patterson, Gundy, Peterson (long time well regarded smart coaches that have maximized non-blue blood powers.. never had chance to coach at the highest levels with the best talent).. what would happen if they went to an LSU or Bama like a Nick Saban?  Could drastically change how you perceive them.

Strong - bust at Texas, bust at USF (basically the same category as Tom Herman, probably the only one that doesn't belong in the same caliber of coach with the other guys really)

Riley - born on 3rd base, QB scheme savant, not a great coach at 2 blue bloods

Leach - offensive scheme savant, had a maximal ceiling as a HC given results at Tech and MSU

Kelly, Beamer - Solid coaches, Beamer never got over the hump while VT was relevant, Kelly hasn't yet at 2 historic programs either.. we'll see if he can eventually get enough talent ala Mack Brown

Kiffin - like Sark in age and ability to win in the SEC, but without the trajectory.

Edited 4 hours ago by Quinncent McManning, Jr.

[texcoyote15]

What’s concerning to me and probably others is how many times have we heard either Sark and staff were out coached, the other team was better prepared, or the other team’s game plan was better. 
I’m not saying Sark isn’t the guy to bring us to the top, but yesterday, Georgia last year, both semifinal games may be the ceiling. He wasn’t a head coach long enough at any other stops to make a determination. I can tell you I don’t like hearing we were out coached, other team was better prepared, or there game plan was better. I guess at least they aren’t calling us soft anymore.

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

Just now, texcoyote15 said:

What’s concerning to me and probably others is how many times have we heard either Sark and staff were out coached, the other team was better prepared, or the other team’s game plan was better. 
I’m not saying Sark isn’t the guy to bring us to the top, but yesterday, Georgia last year, both semifinal games may be the ceiling. He wasn’t a head coach long enough at any other stops to make a determination. I can tell you I don’t like hearing we were out coached, other team was better prepared, or there game plan was better. I guess at least they aren’t calling us soft anymore.

all fair points

[Jordan91]

He’s in the third category for now, but he’s not Franklin. You need to get Urban Meyer out of that top category. What happened when he went pro?

[Quinncent McManning, Jr.]

2 minutes ago, Jordan91 said:

He’s in the third category for now, but he’s not Franklin. You need to get Urban Meyer out of that top category. What happened when he went pro?

Well you would then need to do the same with Saban and Pitino. Meyer is an elite college coach. Slimy yes but one of the few coaches that you would expect success whoever you plug him in. 

[JMarquette]

12 minutes ago, Forrest J. said:

Do you know Sabans history at Michigan St., LSU, and Bama?  Do you know he’s won over 80% of the college games he coached? Turned them all around and made them into contenders. Won titles with multiple schools and sustained excellence at the one place he made home. He left the NFL because it’s a different game. He’s a college coach and he realized that.   You do know that Strong coached before he came to UT right?  This wasn’t his first gig. He was on his way to making Louisville into what Patterson made TCU to be, winning over 70% of his games and going 3-1 in bowl games. His mistake was thinking he’s a Gifted & Talented coach when he’s not. Shoulder have stayed at Louisville and became a legend like Patterson and Gundy. 

Category 1: “drop them in any situation, college or pro…” that’s where you’re wrong. Go back and read what you said lol.
 

Second, are you really going to do the Charlie thing lol? Because then you can put Scott Frost, Luke Fickell, and Charlie Strong in the same category as Sark lol. That’s insane. This is why I said your categories are facially deficient. 

 

For someone who claims to have watched sports for 30 years (as some kind of “badge of authority) you really don’t get nuance. That was why I said, between 2-3. Again, doesn’t take a rocket scientist, even you can understand that.

[Forrest J.]

2 hours ago, Quinncent McManning, Jr. said:

Well you would then need to do the same with Saban and Pitino. Meyer is an elite college coach. Slimy yes but one of the few coaches that you would expect success whoever you plug him in. 

Yep!  Some Coaches styles don’t work when they are not in charge of who to draft, trade, cut, recruit,  etc. That’s why I overlook great college coaches who spent a moment in the pros then went back to coaching college because they knew it wasn’t going to work under the constraints presented when working for a pro sports franchise. 

“If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.”

~Bill Parcells

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Forrest J.

[Forrest J.]

4 hours ago, JMarquette said:

Your list has contradictions - for example, Saban doesn’t belong in the first category, he left the NFL because he couldn’t cut it. Also, Charlie Strong in 3? Did you watch the 2010’s?
 

Which underlies the problem of your list, there are “tweeners.” Sark is probably a tweener between your “categories” 2 & 3. 

All good. Make your own list, include a category for “tweeners” on it and put Sark there. I will not disagree with you. 

Edited 1 minute ago by Forrest J.