Arch Not Seeing Field in Picture Format

[Hashtag]

Yellow check down, red is right read

 

Last year vs Georgia, two guys open - This is thrown to the receiver in middle of field

vs Ohio St this year - The throw to wingo in double coverage

 

vs Florida, everything deep is covered and it's obvious early, he should know to go to Moore Jr with the ball. he waits too long and steps up and gets hit and lets off a funky pass late.

This curle is wide open split between two defenders, a ball to the chest of the receiver is a catch for a 1st down, instead this is a sack

This was a sack as well even though there is a guy wide open if the ball comes out on time

Here is that funky screen play that was called that was fit into a 3rd window which should have either been thrown immediately(potential second window) or to the checkdown out in the flat that was wide open with defenders 8-10 yards off and 2 receivers up top

 

 

 

Like I've been telling you all that the plays are there to be made but Arch isn't seeing them under 20 years or check down routes. He's too focused on his deep concepts and plays. These are just a few screenshots from different games, there are tons more of the same stuff. Now I'm not asking him to be perfect but these are basic QB plays and reads. As you can see in a lot of these screen shots he has the time and that's a recurring theme amongst the plays not pictured that happen as well. Yes our OL is playing bad and not helping him but he is also not helping them either. 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Hashtag

[DanielOnorato]

I have full confidence that he will eventually get there with his reads and check downs but it has certainly been difficult to watch. The short and intermediate doesn't come naturally for his eyes or touch right now. Caldwell knew what the defense was throwing at him, where the pressure was coming from and to get it out quickly in space where only his guy has a chance to make a play or nobody does. Wingo converted the 2nd and 22 a crucial clutch play in the game. 

Aaron Murray did a good job breaking down some of the concerns with Archs eyes and decision making in this breakdown of the Florida game. All of the tools are there, hoping the mental speeds up for him sooner rather than later but I do believe it's coming. Quinn's pre snap check vs AZ St, even when the OL had a penalty to make it 4th and 13 -- was crucial to winning a playoff game. The little things and subtleties a great QB does need to be developed and improved but should come with experience. I thought he'd be much further along mentally as far as clock management, coverages, protections etc but still believe he can take us to the promise land eventually. 

https://youtu.be/2hMMqc6Soes?si=jKdG0rUPZ5UbDTZT

[Tommy]

amazing examples thank you 

 

[Here for the Wins]

4 minutes ago, Tommy said:

amazing examples thank you 

 

He’s a moron.

On that screen, there was a guy in the first window, a guy in the second window too.  In all his arrogance, he tells me it's to be thrown immediately until I show him the screenshot with two guys squeezing Endries in that window so then he says the 2nd window is open and that the defender is too locked leg to the play.  The absolute risk is a tip and pick.  His actions were completely reasonable.

So every time you get a screenshot, every defenders reaction is based on the action to the point.  If a QBs head, shoulders and feet are down the middle of the field, then certainly in a non-man coverage situation, the defender will act accordingly.  So, if that Qb shifts to the right flat, like in the Endries Ohio State shot, then defenders will begin to move so 15 yards of space when the QB is not ready to throw and has to throw it 30 yards, the pass catcher has to catch, turn and run isn’t as open as he appears.  

And sure, that curl right, imagine the corners reaction when he sees those shoulders and hips turning that way.  He has help deep, he has help to the inside.  There’s no threat underneath.  It is entirely possible the QB identified that early and went to the other side of the field because the numbers were more advantageous.

The last one before the screen.  If that’s the play I think it is, there is a similar if not identical to the right.  There’s absolutely no way to know which side will be open initially.  But you can imagine that a right handed QB may look right first.

You can pretty much do this all day, every day on zone coverage.  There will always be missed QB opportunities.  And you’re pretty much a moron if you think on 5 man routes the QB will find the first man open or the only man open every time.

[AusMOJO]

So, what is the fix for this? Is it Arch in general or is it his development has been lacking? I'm a bit confused on that part. Not sure if he's just flustered or if he really isn't seeing these things. 

I remember that play against UTEP or one of those teams, where it was an out route (I think) to Livingstone on a 4th down in the red zone and he rolls out and is starting right at Livingstone who's open for the 1st down and he keeps staring him down and then reverses field and throws an INT straight to a DB in the end zone. That was such a bizarre play by him.

While I don't think he's the biggest problem on this team, his development compared to say a Julian Sayin or that kid Kiffin has at Ole Miss who was a d2 or d3 QB, is baffling to me.  

[Here for the Wins]

On ESPN Greg McElroy says Carson Beck is playing out of his mind.  I heard that right now.  He meant on a good way.

Yet against UF he was at 56%, 160 yards, no TDs, 1 pick.  He was pressured 19% of the time.  On those 6 pressures, he was 1-5 for 9 yards and a pick.  He completed 64% otherwise at a depth of 3.4 yards.

But I suppose no one was open and UF was playing with 14 guys but against us, oh they were awful.  Or maybe he said, “screw my game.  I’m relying on the defense.”  Maybe the WRs took the day off.

[General Grant]

10 hours ago, Hashtag said:

Yellow check down, red is right read

 

Last year vs Georgia, two guys open - This is thrown to the receiver in middle of field

vs Ohio St this year - The throw to wingo in double coverage

 

vs Florida, everything deep is covered and it's obvious early, he should know to go to Moore Jr with the ball. he waits too long and steps up and gets hit and lets off a funky pass late.

This curle is wide open split between two defenders, a ball to the chest of the receiver is a catch for a 1st down, instead this is a sack

This was a sack as well even though there is a guy wide open if the ball comes out on time

Here is that funky screen play that was called that was fit into a 3rd window which should have either been thrown immediately(potential second window) or to the checkdown out in the flat that was wide open with defenders 8-10 yards off and 2 receivers up top

 

 

 

Like I've been telling you all that the plays are there to be made but Arch isn't seeing them under 20 years or check down routes. He's too focused on his deep concepts and plays. These are just a few screenshots from different games, there are tons more of the same stuff. Now I'm not asking him to be perfect but these are basic QB plays and reads. As you can see in a lot of these screen shots he has the time and that's a recurring theme amongst the plays not pictured that happen as well. Yes our OL is playing bad and not helping him but he is also not helping them either. 

 

20 years is a long time 

[Atticus]

In any given screenshot, a guy can look open. You really have to know the progressions and how a play unfolds to know which ones he's missing.

[DanielOnorato]

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

In any given screenshot, a guy can look open. You really have to know the progressions and how a play unfolds to know which ones he's missing.

I linked a video with Aaron Murray discussing Archs eyes and reads. 

[MBHORNSFAN]

OP wrote the Athletic article. 

[LECHorns]

Aaron Murray’s was an ok watch, except the TD. He lucked into the TD?  Aaron can tell that based on where his helmet is pointed?  How do we know Arch isn’t looking off the other deep safety?

These still frames are cool, but check downs are tough to get to under immediate, constant duress. It’s one thing to hold it too long and not check down, but I didn’t have that complaint too often on Saturday. He didn’t even have time to let the initial read mature.

[CJ Vogel]

13 hours ago, Hashtag said:

Here is that funky screen play that was called that was fit into a 3rd window which should have either been thrown immediately(potential second window) or to the checkdown out in the flat that was wide open with defenders 8-10 yards off and 2 receivers up top

 

The point of calling a screen play...is to throw the screen.

[Joe Zura]

#banhashtag

[JMarquette]

48 minutes ago, MBHORNSFAN said:

OP wrote the Athletic article. 

Has Hashtag said anything incorrect?

[MBHORNSFAN]

13 minutes ago, JMarquette said:

Has Hashtag said anything incorrect?

LOL.  White Knighting is cute. 

[JMarquette]

1 minute ago, MBHORNSFAN said:

LOL.  White Knighting is cute. 

I just see the steam coming out of your head trying to formulate some semblance of a response - keep doing you, man. About to get yourself kicked off of another site 😂

[MBHORNSFAN]

Just now, JMarquette said:

I just see the steam coming out of your head trying to formulate some semblance of a response - keep doing you, man. About to get yourself kicked off of another site 😂

 

I haven't been kicked off any sites. Quit lying.  I left OB almost a year ago by my choice. Still on IT and here. Keep trying.  I knew you would revert to a personal attacks. It’s all you do. 

[Here for the Wins]

56 minutes ago, DanielOnorato said:

I linked a video with Aaron Murray discussing Archs eyes and reads. 

The one in which he is talking about ripping the post that ends at 3:32.  The one in which the Db is over the top in prime position to break on the ball.

At 7:45, he’s paused it.  He’s yammering about the safety in the middle.  Screenshot below.  That safety is done on a well thrown ball because he and Wingo are even at the 50.  He’s not running faster than Wingo and will have a greater distance to travel.  Undoubtedly, the short route is the top choice, but Wingo had better leverage here than on the previous play.  That safety was outside the hash to start, turns his back to Wingo as he moves to the middle of the field.

So, there’s likely a justified reason for Arch’s actions.  At some point, you’ve passed the point of no return with a heavy pass rush.  I’m thinking rush or not he’s going deep.  It’s certainly a far lower percentage throw, but no one is complaining if there’s 6 on the board.  

You may also have some defensive subtlety too on this particular play.  Murray does mention a time or two that he’s not sure what’s discussed in meetings.  I’ve heard a little about UF running cover 2.  Colleges will run some different coverages and sometimes they blow it, but sometimes it’s not egregious enough to screw up but moreso add confusion to the QB.  He never addresses the coverage (actually he says single high) but it looks as though we’re going deep thirds.  Otherwise, there’s talk of cover 2 and 4.  So, if we’re working all week on cover 2/4, then this is an unexpected variation with pretty quick pressure, that’s part of the equation.

So, explain to us Murray what happens to your eyes, your reads if the defense gives you unexpected looks?  Defenses have evolved a great deal in the last 10 years.  Maybe that didn’t happen much.

Murray clearly knows the position but seems to forget he was a 62% passer with some variation of missed reads, slow reads, pressure that caused him to miss on 38% of his balls.

The context surrounding these discussions is sorely lacking.

[JMarquette]

5 minutes ago, MBHORNSFAN said:

 

I haven't been kicked off any sites. Quit lying.  I left OB almost a year ago by my choice. Still on IT and here. Keep trying.  I knew you would revert to a personal attacks. It’s all you do. 

I’m just trying to help you out - want you to stay on this site for your in depth input and substantive responses 

[Myzos]

He’s a young QB with a crap oline. Ask yourself how first year Quinn would do. It takes time and experience. The way he moves around in a dirty pocket (almost every play) is elite. 
 

next year if the oline improves, I look for him to be a top 3 college QB. 

[MBHORNSFAN]

2 minutes ago, JMarquette said:

I’m just trying to help you out - want you to stay on this site for your in depth input and substantive responses 

 

Keep trolling.  And funny coming from the dude who keeps getting timeouts here. 

[JMarquette]

5 minutes ago, MBHORNSFAN said:

 

Keep trolling.  And funny coming from the dude who keeps getting timeouts here. 

I’m not trolling, genuinely want you to stay on this board and not get banned again. That’s all! 

[Neil Leininger]

15 hours ago, AusMOJO said:

So, what is the fix for this? Is it Arch in general or is it his development has been lacking? I'm a bit confused on that part. Not sure if he's just flustered or if he really isn't seeing these things. 

I remember that play against UTEP or one of those teams, where it was an out route (I think) to Livingstone on a 4th down in the red zone and he rolls out and is starting right at Livingstone who's open for the 1st down and he keeps staring him down and then reverses field and throws an INT straight to a DB in the end zone. That was such a bizarre play by him.

While I don't think he's the biggest problem on this team, his development compared to say a Julian Sayin or that kid Kiffin has at Ole Miss who was a d2 or d3 QB, is baffling to me.  

He's playing like a QB that has no confidence in his OL + he just doesn't see the field + he can't read defenses at a level that a 3rd year QB should be able to read. Murray's video was pretty much spot on. The OL played horrible, but Arch had plenty of chances to put more than 21 points on the board. This is just going to be a frustrating season because Arch needs to be playing a much higher level to make up for the OL because they can't guarantee consistent protection or a running game to take pressure off.

[harveycmd]

I don't get this. Arch is much better at avoiding sacks than most. He misses throws. He makes throws. Defense screwed us against Florida. What do you want?

[rgvhorn80]

He’s not seeing the field well. He is missing wide open WRs in addition to not having time to throw at times.